Re: No goals, selective memory, be nice, red nose day
On Thu, Aug 19, 2004 at 12:51:51AM +0100, MJ Ray said
> Carla Schroder wrote:
> >I shouldn't feed the troll, but what the heck. So here's how it goes:
>
> Likewise, I'm sure.
>
> >1. You don't support Debian-Women
> >2. You disagree with our goals, and don't think we should even exist
>
> "Our goals"?!? Collectively, you still have no stated goals! How can I
> disagree with them or support them? It turns out there is practically
> nothing to support or disagree with.
>
> This is part of the problem with discussing whether or not a
> debian-women list should exist. When I tried to research, explain and
> form conclusions, I got flamed to a well-done crisp because it's not
> the way it looked, or so I'm told.
>
> >3. You come only to whine, nitpick, complain, and criticize, and
> >never ever
> >ever do even a single constructive act
>
> You are simply ignoring constructive acts. I have tried to reply
> usefully to RFCs and questions. I have no interest in constructing a
> segregated space, so it shouldn't be surprising I don't act towards
> that.
>
> For comparison, what constructive acts are you doing on-list? Last
> week, you come only to greet, flame, AOL and post URLs, AFAICT.
>
> >4. But you still want people to be nice to you, and treat you well,
> >and
> >accept you as a member of the community. Which you are very clear you
> >disapprove of, and do not support
>
> Well, even if so, why not? This list claims friendliness and
> intolerance of bigotry, yet it's ferpectly pine for anyone not
> praising debian-women to be attacked by listers with flames, abuse,
> public IRC logs or conspiracies of silence. Such behaviour will get no
> rebukes here.
>
> >I never did count you as a supporter, just a prime example of why
> >groups like
> >Debian-Women are needed. Though this is approaching comic relief.
>
> The next comic relief/red nose day is 11 March 2005, so I guess it's
> approaching.
>
> I am a prime example why groups like debian-women work against their
> aim: I believe in equal opportunities in debian for all, regardless of
> irrelevant characteristics like sex. I don't even know whether there
> are any women amongst those I collaborate with on packaging, for
> example (because I don't know some of the people well enough yet and
> it's not that important). In future, I will try to avoid many of the
> posters to this list on some things. I guess it helps that me to know
> who you are: a purpose for debian-women!
>
> The idea of parts of the debian project being closed to a particular
> sex or race is offensive to me, yet some debian-women participants
> support similar moves in other projects or call things like linuxchix
> "a great community". The solution to running into a wall is to knock
> it down, not build your own! The other likely offensive move is
> promoting the idea that "friendly," "welcoming" and similar notions
> are essentially linked with "women". Thank you carla for tirelessly
> working to kill that myth. ;-)
>
> I am not subscribed and I request a cc, although I fully expect carla
> to ignore the request yet again. I don't set Mail-Followup-To because
> djb's proposal is buggy. (On broken email clients, when is mutt
> getting List-Post support?)
>
> --
> MJR/slef My Opinion Only and not of any group I know
>
>
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