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Re: Comments on the FAQ

On 2004-08-08 04:18:20 +0100 Erinn Clark <erinnc@bellsouth.net> wrote:

[ Cc'ing you because I'm not sure if you're subscribed ]

Thanks. I forgot to ask.

* MJ Ray <mjr@dsl.pipex.com> [2004:08:08 03:29 +0100]:
Maybe it's a semantics thing -- I used 'affiliated' because it was a
convenient word and meaning, but it seems it's a little more precisely
defined than I thought. Perhaps s/affiliated/associated/? Or get rid of it
entirely? Is *.debian.org explanation enough?

Actually, it's more that there is not any precise "affiliated" commonly used by debian AFAICT. There are delegates, mailing lists, ports and many other things. Would an answer to "How is Debian Women affiliated to debian?" cover this? It certainly would preempt my question.

LinuxChix is a group that has sex-segregated lists and permits sexism [...]
LinuxChix is also linked on Planet Debian. I don't believe we are doing
any more endorsing than they are.

Planet Debian is the private creation of some DD and it wasn't hosted on debian servers, last I knew. I'm not comfortable with all of their editing decisions, but it's more remote from the project. That doesn't really relate to debian women, a group apparently wishing to address sexism, encouraging groups promoting sexism, does it?

It's a "women in technology" forum which
is more inclusive (in terms of technology), so I plan to leave it since a
lot of women find it useful.

A lot of women find the BNP useful, but I'd suggest not encouraging them either.

The advice on ignoring trolls seems to contradict the linked document's advice to educate users about trolling. I suggest, if a troll appears, whoever is currently responsible (one!) should concisely point out to list and troll why the troll is considered so (and not just "you are a troll AICM5P").
The issue with replying to a troll is that it can possibly lead to a
flamewar where people feel the need to be heard. [...]

This is why I recommend delegating to a responsible troll-detector to do one reply. This seems to satisfy both the "Searching for Safety Online" conclusion and your given aim of the silence policy (not explicit in the FAQ, by the way). It also avoids sincere minority view posters being met with a nasty conspiracy of silence and random accusations of trolling.

The policies for using different channel- and user-altering flags (like +b and +m) should be explained.
Hmm, was this not explained in the linked IRC HOWTO? I didn't look through
it exhaustively, so maybe a better link is in order.

No, the FAQs linked (what HOWTO?) mostly cover technicalities. This is probably something participants need to agree and publish, as the policy will probably be different to many others.

Perhaps it would be good to point out that flaming people that disagree with us is just as inappropriate as them flaming us? This may not be as
clear as it should.

That seems a good idea.

The Profiles page is described as listing only women. Is that accurate?

If peterS submits an entry, it will be refused because he is not a woman? Like the FAQ question I suggested above: why isn't this sexism?

Most of the rest of this page comes from debian-www's CVS, doesn't it?
I didn't put this page together. I think it's a good reference for All
Things Debian, though.

Maybe, but it would do more good on the main www if it's not already there.


This might be different, as it's clearly marked as one person's view: Systers is a sexist group only admitting women. Is it appropriate for linking?
Well, it was asked what other 'women in technology' groups the women were involved with, and I do not plan to censor them, so yes, it's appropriate.

Must we have a strong supporter of debian-women submit a profile of pure link-spam or hate-speech before reconsidering that?

I'm not a member of Systers, so I'm unable to comment on their exclusivity.

Applicants to Systers must include a short essay which (amongst others) asserts that they are female. They justify sexism on the grounds that women are a minority, mostly. I hope that's obviously wrong to the debian-women contributors.

MJR/slef    My Opinion Only and not of any group I know
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