Bug#1042471: ITP: u-boot-asahi -- u-boot bootloader for Apple silicon systems
Hi Andreas,
On Fri, Aug 04, 2023 at 01:07:32PM +0200, Andreas Henriksson wrote:
> Hello Tobias Heider,
>
> While I'm as entusiastic as anyone else here, I have to ask a few
> questions that might be a bit skeptical below...
>
> On Fri, Jul 28, 2023 at 10:00:35PM +0200, Tobias Heider wrote:
> > Package: wnpp
> > Severity: wishlist
> > Owner: Tobias Heider <me@tobhe.de>
> > X-Debbugs-Cc: debian-devel@lists.debian.org
> >
> > * Package name : u-boot-asahi
> > Version : 2023.04-2
> > Upstream Authors: Mark Kettenis <kettenis@openbsd.org>
> > URL : https://github.com/AsahiLinux/u-boot
>
> This is a development repository and things are sent upstream
> to u-boot (mainline). The upstreaming effort is driven by the person you
> listed as author (while actual authors is usually someone else AFAIK).
I don't quite agree with calling it just a development repository.
It is the main repository for the Asahi Linux fork where releases
are tagged which are then packaged in their official ALARM (and soon Fedora)
distributions and also used by the unofficial ports listed here:
https://github.com/AsahiLinux/docs/wiki/SW%3AAlternative-Distros
You are right that there is work to upstream those changes, but the diff is
not small and I don't think the upstream support is at a point where it is
actually usable.
I wouldn't mind updating the Upstream Authors field if you think there is
a better name to put there.
>
> Is there any other u-boot development forks being packaged in Debian and
> how viable do you think this is? Is the plan to eventually provide a
> migration to u-boot-asahi binary package provided by src:u-boot or how
> do you see the future path of this?
I am not aware of other forks being packaged at the moment.
I think it is useful because there are many users such as everyone
currently using Glanzmann's repo, but also those running Ubuntu or Deepin.
Ideally we'll be able to migrate to mainline u-boot at some point but I don't
see that happening too soon.
>
> Is this targeting Trixie or Experimental?
Trixie, because that way it will be available for users of the Debian based
Asahi ports at some point.
Installing the packaged binaries in the boot path requires manual intervention
at the moment so the danger of breakage pretty low.
>
> Is there any particular reason you're targeting u-boot? Are you planning
> on working on any installer? Also planning on packaging linux-asahi
> development repo?
>
Repeating what I said above, I think there are plenty of users for m1n1 and
u-boot even if not everything needed to install a fully working Debian system
is available from the official archive yet.
Both of them are relatively straightforward to package, have tagged releases
and are useful even without having a working kernel.
Also: we need to start somewhere.
I don't currenly have a good answer for the linux-asahi kernel.
Ultimately I would of course like to have a working kernel available.
>
> Do you have contact with upstream about this? They have been very vocal
> about distros shipping things that causes additional problems for (users
> and then in turn for) the Asahi project in the past.
> (Also atleast some Asahi team members are already not publishing their
> development git branches because of fear of people dumping them into
> distros.)
I am a maintainer one of one of the community ports where we already ship
a packaged version of the asahi u-boot and so far that has not been a problem.
The problems you mention were caused by distributions packaging and publishing
versions of the upstream software that was neither tagged nor released for the
official Asahi distribution and had known bugs.
I don't think there is a problem here if we stick to upstream releases and
act responsibly, but I wouldn't mind asking for an official blessing from
the upstream maintainers if you prefer that.
>
> How does this effort compare against Thomas Glanzmann effort[1]?
> Do you plan to provide a migration path (and why would users migrate
> over to debian-bananas effort instead of Glansmanns effort)?
>
> (IMHO while Glanzmanns effort is not my preferable packaging style, it
> provides a very good stop gap solution until everything has been
> mainlined into u-boot, linux, mesa which in turn then and only then
> makes it ready for proper Debian packaging. Apart from mainlining work
> which hopefully will happen without any assintance from Debian, the
> biggest challange is probably to provide a sane installer solution
> acceptable for Debian. Is this a task the bananas team intends to take
> on?)
I have discussed my plan to package m1n1 and u-boot with Thomas Glanzmann
before I sent this mail to make sure it doesn't interfere with his work
or break existing installations.
The idea is that once we have them in the official archive, he and others
can switch to using those versions instead of maintaining their own.
Glanzmann's repo is still useful because it provides a convenient installer
and all the other packages we don't package for now such as the asahi kernel
and mesa.
>
> Something that I think is missing in Glanzmanns effort is providing
> https://github.com/AsahiLinux/alsa-ucm-conf-asahi which is needed
> for audio out on the mic/headphone jack. Would be great if these files
> found a home in some existing (or possibly new) package in Debian if
> you're looking for somewhere to invest your time.
> (The alsa-ucm-conf package currently provides all files currently
> offered by Debian.)
Thanks, I'll add that to our todo list!
>
> > * License : GPL-2
> > Description : A u-boot bootloader for Apple silicon systems
> >
> [... snip generic u-boot description ...]
> >
> > u-boot is used as a second stage bootloader for Linux on M1/M2 Apple macs.
>
> AFAIK and FWIW u-boot is in this case used to provide an EFI(-like)
> environment (to be able to use generic distro bootloaders as the next
> step in the boot chain).
That certainly is the main reason. It has a few more useful features
such as currently being the only way to boot from usb disks on those machines.
>
> > This will be maintained by the Debian Bananas team.
>
> I'm not familiar with this team, is there anywhere to read up on its
> purpose and background or maybe you can give an introduction to this
> team?
> I found https://salsa.debian.org/bananas-team which links to the
> InstallingDebianOn/Apple/M1 wiki page which has no information
> as far as I can see about the Bananas team.
We only just registered the team so this is all work in progress.
The plan is to have an official team for anything Apple Silicon related.
You can join us in #debian-bananas if you are interested!
Regards,
Tobias
>
> Regards,
> Andreas Henriksson
>
> [1]: https://git.zerfleddert.de/cgi-bin/gitweb.cgi/m1-debian
Reply to: