Re: Changing how we handle non-free firmware
Forwarded following a bounce to debian-vote for completeness
Date: Tue, 23 Aug 2022 14:03:57 +0000
From: "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com>
To: Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>
Cc: debian-vote@einval.com
Subject: Re: Changing how we handle non-free firmware
On Tue, Aug 23, 2022 at 10:53:46AM +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
> "Andrew M.A. Cater" <amacater@einval.com> writes:
>
> > In practice, the free installer is useless on its own.
>
> That is not my experience -- I'm using Debian through its installer on a
> number of laptops, desktops and servers, and for my purposes it works
> fine and in general I have not needed to enable non-free/contrib for
> hardware support. You may have other purposes for which it does not
> work, but that doesn't make it useless for everyone, and there are
> alternatives available to solve your use-case (unofficial non-free
> installer) that doesn't entail the cost of abandoning the free software
> ideals of the Debian project.
>
> /Simon
Hi Simon,
I don't think you quite picked up on my meaning. The free installer is
absolutely useless _because_ you are already using a machine containing a bunch
of firmware (that you may or may not know anything about) - disk drives, basic
drivers for graphics cards. If the free installer works, it's because you
already have firmware.
Non-free firmware often adds a better driver - see Intel/AMD microcode / amdgpu
- which extends the minimal functionality you have. Microcode is there even
if you never upgrade it, essentially, as is other firmware.
Now we're in a situation where non-free firmware is absolutely required for
basic functionality - without the Intel non-free firmware, you can't run
sound for a visually impaired user to install if you have some Intel laptops.
That VI user will *never* be able to install Debian.
The new installer would include optional non-free firmware needed to make
the machine work. It's still not including non-free in Debian - but it's
making a machine usable. The free installer is ideal for virtualisation
only because it's sitting on top of a bunch of idealised hardware.
All the best, as ever,
Andy Cater
----- End forwarded message -----
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