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Re: Are Martin and Sam's platforms equivalent?

On Tue, Mar 26, 2019 at 07:06:26PM -0400, Sam Hartman wrote:
> >>>>> "Jose" == Jose Miguel Parrella <bureado@debian.org> writes:
>     Jose> The question is _what_ would be up for discussion, given it's
>     Jose> only a year.
> In the discussions here, three items have come up that resonate with me
> significantly:
> 1) Can we recommend/require dh > 9?
> 2) Do we want to more strongly recommend that people have packages in
> Git repos on Salsa?
> 3) An eventual Git-based source format.
> Note that I've discussed these as pure items about policy around
> packaging.  However, embedded in these discussions will be questions of
> work flow and collaboration.
> So, at a minimum, I'd like to try and lead discussions on these 3 items.
> The specific discussions will be very different, but I think they will
> all be valuable discussions in helping make it easier to contribute to
> Debian.

They might be relevant for people already in Debian.

If you want to "make it easier to contribute to Debian" for non-DDs,
I'd say they are mostly irrelevant and the actual problems are elsewhere:

1. Non-DDs getting single changes into Debian
If you are not a DD, there is no process to get a change into 
Debian if the maintainer is MIA or is one of those maintainers
who ignores the BTS and only uploads new upstream versions.
Note that I am not talking about contoversial changes NAKed by the 
maintainer, I am talking about 10 year old clearly correct patches
or "New upstream version" bugs that are rotting in the BTS.
Whether a patch is rotting in the BTS or is rotting in a MR on salsa 
doesn't really make a difference on the underlying problem.

2. Package sponsorship
Any mentoring outreach aimed at finding new contributors should start 
with no longer frustrating the people who have already started to 
contribute. They might stop their contributions.
There are too few people reviewing packages at sponsorship-requests,
but proper and timely reviews would be very important both for not
frustrating new contributors and ensuring that new contributors
are learning to do high-quality packaging.
Spending any resources on finding new contributors who are starting
at zero doesn't really make sense as long as people who are already 
contributing have to wait months for getting their ITPs reviewed
and uploaded (and then have to wait additional months while the
package is in NEW).

> I'm sure other issues will come up, but those three are specifically
> items that people in the -vote discussion seem open to discussing more
> broadly and that I think are real pain points.

My points are non-issues for DDs participating in a -vote discussion,
but are real barriers for people who are beginning to contribute.

Coming from the Debian bubble, it was a surprising experience when the
first patch I submitted to Yocto was on the master branch a day later.



       "Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
        of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
       "Only a promise," Lao Er said.
                                       Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed

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