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Re: [Call for seconds] The “no GR, please“ amendement.

Le Sun, Oct 19, 2014 at 05:01:02PM +0200, Lucas Nussbaum a écrit :
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > 
> > The Debian project asks its members to be considerate when proposing General
> > Resolutions, as the GR process may be disruptive regardless of the outcome of
> > the vote.
> > 
> > Regarding the subject of this ballot, the Project affirms that the question
> > has already been resolved and thus does not require a General Resolution.
> > 
> > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
> I think that it would be very helpful to describe how "the question has
> already been resolved". My understanding is that the various proposals
> add policy on something that isn't currently covered by the Debian Policy
> or by TC decisions.
> Alternatively, your resolution could state that the current de-facto
> policy of supporting both systemd and sysvinit (sometimes through
> systemd-shim) should be kept for Debian jessie, and that deciding
> on policy beyond jessie is premature at this point.

Hi Lucas,

being more precise would somehow defeat the point of stating that no GR is
needed, because the way the solution would be expressed, with its
imperfections, would then become binding.

This said, let me clarify my understanding of the current situation.

 - Pepole running GNOME and desktops needing features not found in
   other init systems will be migrated to systemd during update.

 - Whether other people will be migrated or invited to migrate is in
   the hands of the release team, who decides which packages are
   part of Jessie or not.

The techincal commttee has already given the general direction: we change the
default init system.  In my opinion, this general direction is how the
“question” is resolved.  Current decisions on which package depend on what,
etc, stem from that decision.  As of today I do not think that we need the
technical comittee, the Policy or a GR to further constrain the work of the
release team.  Replacing the init system is a major change, and obviously some
people who used expert skills to set up their system may need their expertise
to upgrade it.  This, also, is a logical consequence of the TC's decision, and
I trust the various package maintainers that they are doing their best to make
the transition as easy as possible.

Regarding what is proposed, it is actually unclear.  The consequence of
accepting the main proposal may range anywhere between “do nothing special” and
“harrass the GNOME and systemd maintainers until they quit”.  I am sure that
this is not Ian's goal, but I am not sure he is in position to prevent this to

In the case of your proposal, I appreciate your effort to cool down the
situation and you are definitely in your role to do so, but if the whole point
is that after voting it, nothing changes except that people stop complaining,
then I would like to introduce a ballot option that focuses on that point:
telling people who do not have a clear and realistic action plan (that is, no
wishful thinking) to stop complaining.


Charles Plessy
Tsurumi, Kanagawa, Japan

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