Re: Condorcet Voting and Supermajorities (Re: [CONSTITUTIONAL AMENDMENT] Disambiguation of 4.1.5)

[Raul Miller <moth@debian.org>]

I'm chopping lots of stuff out here.

On Fri, Dec 08, 2000 at 01:53:50PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> > > > constitution, while a vote in favor of B is a vote in favor of not
> > > > modifying the constitution.
> > > This, however, doesn't make any sense. Again, there is no such thing
> > > as a vote that is simply "for" or "against" modifying the constitution,
> > > unless the vote simply has "yes" and "no" options.
> > So, a vote which prefers A to B is a vote which prefers an option which
> > modifies the constitution to an option which does not.  A vote which
> > prefers B to A is a vote which prefers not modifying the constitution
> > to an option which prefers modifying the constitution.
> > Do you disagree with this statement?
> 
> Yes. Take a single vote that ranks:
> 
> 	[ 2 ] A (change the constitution)
> 	[ 1 ] B (do such and such, don't change the constitution)
> 	[ 3 ] S (don't change anything, including the constitution)
> 
> You'll note that B is preferred to A: thus it's a vote which prefers not
> modifying the constitution.

Agreed.

> You'll note that A is preferred to S: thus it's a vote *for* modifying
> the constitution.

You'll note that this preference is secondary.

> So yes, I think that's an unhelpful distinction to try to make.

Explain to me, again, why the first preference is no more important
than the other preferences?

.......chop, hack, slash.......

> Conveniently, your options aren't independent enough to actually be
> decided in separate ballots in any fair way (at least as far as I
> can tell [0]).

Add in the missing option if that makes things work better.

> Please rate your preferences for the final form of the draft resolution:
>       [ _ ] P
>       [ _ ] P+A
>       [ _ ] P+B
>       [ _ ] P+A+B
>       [ _ ] P+A+C
>       [ _ ] P+B+C
>       [ _ ] Further Discussion
>
> Should P be the final form of the draft resolution, please rate your
> preferences for its acceptance:
>       [ _ ] Yes
>       [ _ ] No
>       [ _ ] Further Discussion
>
> Should P+A be the fin...
> (etc)

This looks like one amendment ballot and six other ballots, one which
would be a final ballot, and five which would be neither amendment
ballots nor final ballots.  I don't see anything in the constitution
which allows for these non-ballots.

Also.. the constitution does specify that the user be able to vote
differently >>in the final ballot<< for each of the forms of final draft
resolution.  You're only allowing the user to vote on one form of the
final draft resolution in the final ballot.

Thanks,

-- 
Raul