Hi Anthony, On Tue, Jan 20, 2004 at 03:14:30PM -0500, Anthony DeRobertis wrote: > I realize that Raul Miller has not proposed his GR, and intends to hold > off until at least tomorrow. > This comparison is based on > Raul Miller's DRAFT, <[🔎] 20040119082551.T23413@links.magenta.com> > Andrew Suffield's GR, <[🔎] 20040120154939.GA19911@suffields.me.uk> > I'm going to ignore bland procedural text (like the first paragraph of > Raul's draft). Also, I've taken the liberty of re-wrapping lines. This seems to have been word-wrapped by your editor, making it rather difficult to follow. Any chance you could re-post with clearer formatting? -- Steve Langasek postmodern programmer > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > 1. Debian will remain 100% free | 1. Debian will remain 100% free > software | > > Pretty much the same thing. Slight wording difference. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > Debian exists to distribute a | > general purpose system composed | > of entirely free software. > > Raul seems to define Debian's purpose explicitly here; Andrew leaves it > (I assume) implicit. Andrew's "we promise..." sentence seems similar. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > As | We provide the guidelines that > we use > there are many definitions of | to determine if a work is "free" > free software, we use the | in the document entitled "The > Debian > "Debian Free Software | Free Software Guidelines". > Guidelines" to determine if | > software is free. | > > Raul keeps the original rationale for creating the DFSG. Andrew prefers > to shorten it. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > | We > | promise that the Debian system > and > | all its components will be free > | according to these guidelines. > > Andrew makes it very clear that Debian is free; both also state that > the system will never depend on non-free items later on. Raul's > explicit giving Debian purpose, above, probably serves many of the same > goals as this sentence. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > We will also | > We will > support our users who develop | support people who create or > use both > and run other software on Debian | free and non-free works on > Debian. > -- free or non-free -- > > AFAICT, these say the same thing, just slightly differently. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > but we | > We > will never make the system | will never make the system > require the > depend on non-free software. | use of a non-free component. > > Again, the same thing. > > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > 2. We will give back to the free | 2. We will give back to the free > software community | software community > | > When we write new components of the | When we write new components of > the > Debian system, we will license them | Debian system, we will license > them > in a manner consistent with the | in a manner consistent with the > Debian Free Software Guidelines. We | Debian Free Software > Guidelines. We > will make the best system we can, so | will make the best system we > can, so > that free works will be widely | that free works will be widely > distributed and used. We will | distributed and used. We will > communicate things such as bug | communicate things such as bug > fixes, improvements and user | fixes, improvements and user > requests to the "upstream" authors | requests to the "upstream" > authors > of works included in our system. | of works included in our system. > > Word for word, these two are identical. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > 3. We will not hide problems | 3. We will not hide problems > | > We will keep our entire bug report | We will keep our entire bug > report > database open for public view at all | database open for public view > at all > times. Reports that people file | times. Reports that people file > online will promptly become visible | online will promptly become > visible > to others. | to others. > > Identical, again. > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > 4. Our priorities are our users and | 4. Our priorities are our users > and > free software | free software > | > We will be guided by the needs of our | We will be guided by the needs > of > users and the free software | our users and the free software > community. We will place their | community. We will place their > interests first in our priorities. | interests first in our > priorities. > We will support the needs of our | We will support the needs of our > users for operation in many | users for operation in many > different kinds of computing | different kinds of computing > environments. We will not object to | environments. We will not > object to > non-free works that are intended to | non-free works that are > intended to > be used on Debian systems, or | be used on Debian systems, or > attempt to charge a fee to people | attempt to charge a fee to > people > who create or use such works. We | who create or use such works. We > will allow others to create | will allow others to create > distributions containing both the | distributions containing both > the > Debian system and other works, | Debian system and other works, > without any fee from us. In | without any fee from us. In > furtherance of these goals, we will | furtherance of these goals, we > will > provide an integrated system of | provide an integrated system of > high-quality materials with no legal | high-quality materials with no > legal > restrictions that would prevent such | restrictions that would prevent > such > uses of the system. | uses of the system. > > Identical, minus one typographical spacing difference that might of > even been caused by me. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > | If paragraph 5 is still > present, it > | is replaced with the following > | text: > > Andrew clearly intends his resolution to not conflict with the non-free > GR. > Raul's resolution makes no provision on this (I think Raul intends his > to be on > the same ballot as the non-free GR, but Andrew wants his on a seperate > ballot.) > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > 5. Software that doesn't meet our | 5. Works that do not meet our > free > free-software standards | software standards > > Andrew's GR uses the word "works" instead of "software", probably to > clarify > that this applies to things that not everyone calls software, such as > documentation, images, etc. I think this arose out of the GFDL > discussions on > -legal. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > We acknowledge that some, but not | We acknowledge that some of our > all, of our users require the use of | users require the use of works > that > software which does not conform to | do not conform to the Debian > Free > the Debian Free Software Guidelines. | Software Guidelines. > > Raul puts in the phrase "but not all". I'm not sure what purpose this > serves, because "some" already says that. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > In order to accommodate these users, | We have > created > we have created "contrib" and | "contrib" and "non-free" areas > in > "non-free" areas in our internet | our archive for these works. > archive. | > > Raul adds in a transition phrase and the word "internet" (Raul: isn't > Internet > capitalized?). I don't think this is all that different. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > The software in "non-free" | > The > satisfies some, but not all, of our | packages in these areas are not > part > guidelines | of the Debian system, although > they > | have been configured for use > with > | Debian. > > These are fairly different. Raul does not include the statement that > these are > not part of Debian. Doesn't leaving that out cause a problem when > compared to > clause 1? > > Also, I'm not sure that software in non-free has to satisfy any of the > guidelines. Certainly not DFSG 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, or 10. I'm not sure > why > they'd have to satisfy 7 or 9, either, provided it is still legal for > Debian to > distribute it. So this may be a material change. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > and we do not guarantee | We encourage CD > all software in the non-free area | manufacturers to read the > licenses > may be distributed in other ways. | of the packages in these areas > and > | determine if they can > distribute the > | packages on their CDs. > > Raul's wording covers more than CD manufacturers. Raul's wording also > seems to > suggest that we guarantee the distributability of software in main. > > > Raul Miller | Andrew Suffield > -------------------------------------- > |-------------------------------------- > For those who need to run software | Thus, > we do not distribute, free or | although non-free works are not > a > non-free, we support worthy | part of Debian, we support > their use > application binary interface | and provide infrastructure for > standards and namespace management | non-free packages (such as our > bug > standards. Additionally, we will | tracking system and mailing > lists). > work to find, package and support | > free alternatives to non-free | > software so people who use only free | > software can work with users of | > non-free software. | > > Both Raul and Andrew affirm (again) that we support the use of non-free > works. > Raul additionaly addes in that we will support ABI and namespace > standards > (like the LSB, FHS, etc.) Also, Raul adds in that we will work towards > free > alternatives. > > Raul does not state we provide our bug tracking system for non-free > packages, > which Andrew does.
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