Re: Stable and testing together?
On Sun, May 14, 2023 at 09:08:00AM +0200, Hans wrote:
> Hi folks,
>
> thanks for all the answers. Yes, I know, mixing both might be causing
> troubles. But sometimes I got no choice.
>
> For example, the NVidie kernel driver can not be compiled on newer kernels
> than 5.10.22. Reason is, that in the herader files of the newer kernel package
> some files are missing, which the compiler needs.
>
> I filed a bugreport, but the devolper will not fix it, as they claim it an
> NVidia-issue. That does of course not explain, why it on one kernel versions
> builds and the next version not. However, I do not want to mourne about it,
> just tell, what I mean.
>
It *is* an Nvidia issue: the proprietary drivers are something we can't fix.
If Nvidia deprecate them, we do too. If they are full of security issues
that Nvidia will no longer fix, we can't help you in Debian
They are tightly coupled to particular kernel versions. "On one kernel versions
build and the next version not" - there are approximately 2 1/2 years worth
of kernel changes between Debian major releases: that is to be expected.
Likewise, nouveau has improved significantly in that 2 1/2 years and works more
successfully than it did.
> Then I saw, in testing the famous application "digikam" will be removed. So,
> if one did use digikam for a long time, he will be surprised and maybe angry,
> that suddenly digikam has gone.
https://packages.debian.org/bookworm/digikam suggests it's still there ...
>
> These are only two examples, which can be trouble for users. You can of course
> say: "Hard luck!", but the only way to avoid this, is to mix stable and
> testing. Or (in case of graphics driver), buy a new hardware.
>
You can follow a release from testing -> stable -> oldstable -> oldoldstable.
That may or may not be desirable. It will keep you running older software.
As it gets older, you may find that packages get removed as unsupportable.
You always have a choice.
> As we are only one month away from releasing the actual testing (which is in
> freeze state) to stable, I could upgrade now, if I want to. I tried a dry-run,
> and saw i.e. digikam to get being uninstalled and some others.
>
If you're currently running a mix of stable and testing - you're almost
certainly already running mostly testing unless you've pinned your kernel
and several other libraries, as others have said..
> Also it tries to uninstall my NVidia package, which is worse, as it is running
> and I have to avoid this, because it will break my system. As it is a notebook
> I cannot change the graphics card. And no, nouveau is NOT an option!
>
> Worse: I never will get it back, as once deinstalled, I will no more be able
> to build it again, as also the needed compiler and header files are gone in
> testing. Yeah, hard luck, ey?
>
You always have a choice: you can change your /etc/apt/sources.list to *only*
refernce bullseye and follow it down to oldoldstable or whatever.
You can remove any references to testing and attempt to downgrade what you
have. Downgrades are explicitly *not* supported in Debian - it's often far
more straightforward to do a full reinstall.
Without seeing your actual /etc/apt/sources.list I don't know what you
currently have but this thread is a very good illustration of why we
use codenames to fix releases and how "stable" and "testing" are in general
a bad idea to use in sources lists. That has been deprecated for a couple
of releases now.
> As I said, no mourning, just telling, why I believe, deleting packages from
> the repo is not the best idea. However, this is only my personally view and
> maybe I am the only person in the world, who might be affected.
>
In general: packages follow the suite they're in. So bullseye today will
still be bullseye on 12th June when bookworm is (hopefully) released.
All the packages there will still be the same: they will track with
that codebase.
That means you don't get new packages / you don't get large package changes.
That's the definition of stability over a period of years.
So bullseye won't be deleted until it goes past oldoldstable - and even
then it will be available from the archives.
> Anyway, I understood all the dangers, and as I (believe) I know, what I am
> doing, I hope upgrade to the next release will be without major problems.
>
> Thunbs pressing!!
>
> Best regards
>
> Hans
>
>
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