Re: Possible draft non-free firmware option with SC change
- To: Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org>, debian-user <debian-user@lists.debian.org>, droidbittin@gmail.com
- Cc: Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org>, debian-vote@lists.debian.org
- Subject: Re: Possible draft non-free firmware option with SC change
- From: Luna Jernberg <droidbittin@gmail.com>
- Date: Tue, 13 Sep 2022 08:12:26 +0200
- Message-id: <[🔎] CADo9pHhzY+92GzO5vcXruOLeifK0gRQuCnbVd76N9sDKSrff=A@mail.gmail.com>
- In-reply-to: <87leqnn8pq.fsf@latte.josefsson.org>
- References: <87illzkrd7.fsf@hope.eyrie.org> <2331590.iZASKD2KPV@turnagra> <871qsm30ta.fsf@hope.eyrie.org> <45073759.fMDQidcC6G@turnagra> <13775196-fbce-0739-7fa5-979e9d69f606@debian.org> <877d2dj3fx.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> <20220908153938.GR1466385@tack.einval.com> <8735d1hva7.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> <20220912004114.GC2668594@tack.einval.com> <87mtb4wsbu.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> <20220912152128.GW1466385@tack.einval.com> <87czc0wluq.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> <87mtb4fpt8.fsf@hope.eyrie.org> <87v8psv2i4.fsf@latte.josefsson.org> <d9c4307a9ce5695c1df3b31d6432cca5aa6ab33e.camel@43-1.org> <87leqnn8pq.fsf@latte.josefsson.org>
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6RWdELdiws4&t=5756s
On 9/13/22, Simon Josefsson <simon@josefsson.org> wrote:
> Ansgar <ansgar@debian.org> writes:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> On Mon, 2022-09-12 at 21:03 +0200, Simon Josefsson wrote:
>>> My experience is the same as you describe, with the free installer:
>>> if you pick the right hardware, Debian works directly today.
>>
>> By "right hardware", I assume you mean hardware that comes with already
>> preinstalled non-free software?
>
> Yes, or (preferrably) hardware that does not come with non-free software
> at all.
>
>> Does choosing only hardware with preinstalled non-free software
>> (instead of partially OS-supplied non-free firmware) make the non-free
>> software more free?
>
> I don't believe so, no.
>
>>> What it seems this vote is about is to go back to the time where a
>>> non-free work is required before you can get to the decent free
>>> environment.
>>
>> Try removing all non-free firmware then. Your system won't boot, not
>> display anything and you won't be able to input anything either.
>
> I think you (and Simon McVittie in his email) assume that I have as much
> of a problem with non-free works that comes with my system as I do with
> non-free works that comes from Debian. I don't.
>
> Lenovo never promised that my laptop would not contain any non-free
> software, and their commercial compromise to be able to sell a laptop is
> understandable. I prefer if that wasn't the case, and buy machines
> built in a different way (say Purism Libre or Talos II), but I chose to
> use my laptop anyway given its limitations.
>
> My reason for using Debian is that I can rely on getting a 100% free
> system, and then add non-free works on top of it when I chose to do so.
>
> For example, I install the firmware-iwlwifi package on my laptop because
> I haven't been bothered to replace the wifi module with an Atheros wifi
> module yet, even though I bought it five years ago. This flexibility
> suits me well, and it does not seem to be in conflict with the
> flexibility you appear to desire: using a non-free installer to install
> these things automatically for you. My flexibility will no longer be
> permitted by Proposal A and E.
>
> /Simon
>
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