Re: Why? -- "A Modest Proposal"
On Thu, 17 Nov 2016 17:08:23 +0000 (UTC)
debian-user-digest-request@lists.debian.org wrote:
> On Thursday 17 November 2016 14:41:23 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > On 11/16/2016 8:52 AM, Lisi Reisz wrote:
> > > On Wednesday 16 November 2016 14:13:49 Richard Owlett wrote:
> > >> There exist SOC <Summer of Code> projects to encourage/mentor
> > >> fledgling programmers.
> > >> Considering the state of documentation, esp man pages, why no SOD
> > >> <Summer of Documentation> projects for potential tech writers.
> > >
> > > There is no obvious pay-off for Google - or anyone else with
> > > money. And it isn't fun.
> >
> > I don't know how Google internally justifies sponsoring SOC projects.
> > I can see their PR department seeing benefits to their corporate
> > image.
> > Their personnel department may see it as a pool of potential
>
> I would think that both these are valid.
>
> > recruits.
> > I know nothing of the quality of code produced by these projects,
> > nor of its monetary value. None of the SOC projects I've seen
> > mentioned in various fora have been of more than passing interest.
>
> Debian and LibreOffice both find Google's SOC useful. I don't
> specifically know about other projects.
>
> > As to "fun", one man's purgatory may be another's nirvana {or
> > points between}.
>
> No. The problem here is that the overlap between highly competent
> technical people (who find tech fun) and people who love writing, and
> find writing fun, is so small. I personally know one, and he is not a
> developer. Developers love developing. Writers love writing. Neither
> regards the other as occupation as fun.
As someone who has his foot in both worlds I think you misunderstand us
both.
Developers need time to develop, writers need time to write. Both need
the motivation to do both.
So, If I want to develop I can't write and visa-versa.
It is also very worthwhile to point out that in order to do either one
must be in the correct state of mind. My coding improves 100% when I have
recently re-read the code and have planned out in my mind the future
events that will take place in the code. Same with a book. It's typically
called "The zone".
> > The intended point of my second paragraph [which obviously wasn't
> > made as nobody commented on it ;] was a sketch of how to attract
> > technically oriented high school students to tech writing.
But the desire to do anything is a long term yearning. It does not just
pop-up as some would assume. Though i must confess that it seems that
many of the people my age seem to have only the goal of making money in
mind.
> See my paragraph above. And then there is the educational system which
> here anyway tends to separate the techy from the arty very young.
> >
> > > You could always make a start. Have you? This is, after all, open
> > > source. And the Wiki is, well, a Wiki. ;-)
>
> The point I was trying to make, and frequently try to make, is that in
> Open Source you have to say "This needs doing, I must do it." It is no
> good saying "Someone else must do it." Someone else invariably won't.
Good point.
> >
> > I don't see myself as having the technical competence to create
> > wiki content that would do more harm than good.
> >
> > I do try to contribute by asking focused questions and when
> > relevant draw on 50+ years of troubleshooting to document how I
> > came to ask a question. Several here question whether I've
> > achieved either.
When I first started learning Linux every error or warning was horrible
and ambiguous in my mind, this came from my experiences with windowz [1].
By explaining how to cope with these errors and figure out how to trouble
shoot you could be solving an inordinate amount of time and effort, both
for the beginners and this list.
OpenSuse, my first distro, has filters built into it's syslog program to
get rid of all the excess baggage that the programs that it uses throw
out all day long. Think about how much better it would be if people knew
how to fix the problems instead of bit bucketing the messengers.
> You could - some people do - gather all that together and put it in the
> Wiki.
>
> That in itself doesn't contribute to the pool of documentation, at
> least not directly. The pool of knowledge, yes, but the pool of
> "documentation", no. I try to answer and help here, but could never
> actually write something technical. But you (and others) are missing
> my point. In all voluntary activities, you only get done what someone
> wants to do and enjoys doing.
>
> Besides, many of those doing jobs are totally incompetent. The
> publicity department (which I think is PAID) of the FSF thinks that
> Africa is a country in Europe-Asia and that it is an evening's outing
> away from the ISLAND of Great Britain. (She didn't suggest which
> mode(s) of transport she was suggesting I should use. I don't think
> she knew that GB is an island. She didn't know that Africa is a
> separate continent, after all.)
>
> We need education first, Richard. Then - what - money? Is the Closed
> Source documentation so good? I would have said that using ALL
> available material Open Source is better.
I always wondered why he dropped the ball on this one.
> Lisi
>
> > > Lisi
> > >
> > >> In many areas, nerds are considered illiterate. I can see SOD
> > >> projects as a vehicle to encourage technically oriented teens to
> > >> hone their composition skills. Attempting to edit existing man
> > >> pages might be a good starting point. It would obviously require
> > >> mentors with an atypical mixture of skill sets.
> > >>
> > >> P.S. Apologies to J. Swift ;)
Sincerely,
David
[1] For examples of windowz nightmares see:
http://www.vanheusden.com/bosd/
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