Re: There is no choice
On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:33:01PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
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> On 09/23/2014 at 12:21 PM, Reco wrote:
>
> > On Tue, Sep 23, 2014 at 12:04:33PM -0400, The Wanderer wrote:
> >
> >> As best I can dredge it up quickly, the dependency chain is:
> >>
> >> gimp -> libgegl-0.2-0 -> libsdl1.2debian -> libpulse0 ->
> >> libsystemd-id128-0
> >
> > Close, but no cigar :) On this system libsystemd-id128-0 is not
> > installed, and aptitude tells me:
> >
> > $ aptitude why libsystemd-id128-0 i rdesktop Suggests pcscd p
> > pcscd Suggests systemd p systemd Depends libsystemd-id128-0
> > (>= 38)
> >
> >
> > Maybe it's different for testing.
>
> I got that chain as follows:
>
> 1. Run the following command to get a list of systemd-related packages
> which are installed:
> dpkg -l "*systemd*" | grep ii
$ dpkg -l "*s*stemd*" | tail -n +6 | awk '/^ii/ {print $2}'
libsystemd-login0:i386
> 2. Starting out with an appropriately-selected package from that list,
> run the following command:
> apt-get --dry-run install gimp [packagename]-
Um, I use stable and have gimp installed. Original statement was 'Gimp
already depends on (parts of) systemd in current stable'.
Using the method you're proposing apt wants to remove dbus, bluetooth
and a bunch of xfce4-panel stuff. But it doesn't remove gimp.
I've attached the output just in case.
> The package I ended up with is libgegl-0.2-0. If you get a different
> result, I might be interested in hearing the details.
Definitely my results are different. In stable libggegl-0.2-0 does
depend on libpulse0, but libpulse0's dependencies aren't that special.
They do things differently in sid, that's true.
> > I'd point to libsystemd-login0, which get pulled by dbus, but the
> > thing is that I cannot understand why blame gimp for systemd's
> > dependencies if dbus is the real cause of 'trouble'.
>
> Probably because the specific dbus services which these things are
> depending on are provided by code that runs inside of systemd. (Or by
> systemd-shim, but that's a back-implementation, covering up for the
> problems caused by having such services provided only by systemd.)
>
> My understanding is that dbus itself is merely a communications method,
> and that what programs actually depend on are specific services which
> are available over dbus. Which results in an implicit dependency on
> dbus, but dbus itself isn't to blame for problems with those services.
There you've lost me. It's gimp we're talking about, remember? Which
'dbus services' (whatever this thing is) does gimp need? Why depend on
'dbus' package, if all one need to do is to depend on appropriate
'libdbus*'? Why mention 'systemd-shim' if it's a testing-specific
package currently (not in stable)?
Reco
Reading package lists...
Building dependency tree...
Reading state information...
gimp is already the newest version.
The following packages were automatically installed and are no longer required:
imagemagick-common liblqr-1-0 libmagickcore5 libmagickwand5 libpython2.7
libxklavier16 obex-data-server python-gobject python-notify xinit
Use 'apt-get autoremove' to remove them.
The following packages will be REMOVED:
blueman bluez dbus dbus-x11 libsystemd-login0 libxfce4ui-1-0 libxfconf-0-2
xfce4-battery-plugin xfce4-netload-plugin xfce4-notifyd xfce4-panel
xfce4-session xfce4-settings xfce4-utils xfce4-wavelan-plugin
xfce4-xkb-plugin xfconf
0 upgraded, 0 newly installed, 17 to remove and 0 not upgraded.
Remv blueman [1.23-1]
Remv bluez [4.99-2]
Remv xfce4-xkb-plugin [0.5.4.3-1+b1]
Remv xfce4-wavelan-plugin [0.5.11-1+b1]
Remv xfce4-netload-plugin [1.1.0-1+b1]
Remv xfce4-battery-plugin [1.0.5-1+b1]
Remv xfce4-panel [4.8.6-4+demand]
Remv xfce4-session [4.8.3-3]
Remv xfce4-settings [4.8.3-2]
Remv xfce4-notifyd [0.2.2-2]
Remv xfce4-utils [4.8.3-2]
Remv libxfce4ui-1-0 [4.8.1-1]
Remv libxfconf-0-2 [4.8.1-1]
Remv xfconf [4.8.1-1]
Remv dbus-x11 [1.6.8-1+deb7u4]
Remv dbus [1.6.8-1+deb7u4]
Remv libsystemd-login0 [44-11+deb7u4]
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