[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: Four people decided the fate of debian with systemd. Bad faith likely



On Du, 02 mar 14, 18:09:46, ghaverla wrote:
> 
> Systemd seems to have 2 proponents, people interested in fast booting,
> and people interested in servers.  The intersection of those two groups
> is almost the NULL set.  I think the answer to faster booting is
> hibernation, and people have been playing with that for many years as
> near as I can tell.  To the people running servers who want faster
> booting, I would suggest that they not turn the things off.

Hibernation has it's own set of problems, especially as RAM sizes go up.

> It isn't change is evil, the saying is if it isn't broken, don't fix it.

But things *are* broken. Any computer with more than 1 (one) storage 
device (not hot pluggable please) and 1 (one) wired network connection 
(IPv4, not IPv6) with a static configuration and all other devices 
connected at boot needs more than sysvinit + sysv-rc can handle sanely.

If you don't believe me just do

    grep sleep /etc/init.d/*

And let's not forget about: remote shares, remote storage, encrypted 
storage, local hot-plugged devices (not limited to storage), dynamic 
network configuration (especially with IPv6), etc.

> Up until a month or so ago, I wouldn't know Lennart from a hole in the
> ground.  He has a history with projects.  Someone suggested he may not
> have started Pulse, I don't know.  As far as I know, there are still
> problems with Pulse.  I will not install Pulse on any system I set up,
> and if someone wants me to take care of their Linux box, Pulse gets
> removed.  He may not have started Avahi, I don't know.  I disable avahi
> daemons and executables as a matter of course, for much more than 1
> year.  My beef with Avahi?  For my LAN, I have 0 need.  Why is it
> required?  Chmod 640 and the problem is more or less gone.  But I still
> have the useless downloads, which cuts into my bandwidth and possibly
> monthly allowance.  I don't want to download stuff I don't want or
> need.  I have no idea if "avahi" is finished?

Avoiding the need to do stuff like 'chmod 640' is exactly the reason we 
need something more capable than sysvinit + sysv-rc. If I (as the 
administrator of *my* computer) tell the system a specific service is 
not to be started than it should stay like this. Why should I even have 
to apply such hacks when all I need is 'service <servicename> stop'.

OpenRC could be very interesting, but unfortunately its integration with 
Debian is lagging behind systemd and most Debian Developers (including 
the sysv-rc maintainers) don't want to stay with sysv-rc longer than 
absolutely necessary, which in this case is the release of Jessie (due 
to the Debian commitment to support stable upgrades).

> I read the Free Software/FOSS/Libre news a lot.  And I have more than a
> decade.  I didn't see news that init scripts are broken.

Because it's not news? SCNR :)

> With Respect To boot times, I would think moving to a specialised shell
> that had no interactive capability (such as Gnu Readline) might be a
> place to start.  That the "shell" often had to invoke subshells to do
> things, to me might be a reason to try Perl to boot a system.  Just as
> a trial, Perl is big.  But once you get it up and running, it doesn't
> need to invoke inferior processes for many tasks, and is capable of
> starting binaries with calculated arguments.

Execution speed is not the (only) issue, see above.

> Do you have a reference on sysvinit maintainer having problems?  I
> don't anticipate having  time for a couple of months, but maybe after.

A good place to start would be the PTS
http://packages.qa.debian.org/s/sysvinit.html
but maybe you should consider helping out with OpenRC instead? Not 
trying to tell you what to do, I just think OpenRC has a future (in 
general as well as in Debian).


Kind regards,
Andrei
-- 
http://wiki.debian.org/FAQsFromDebianUser
Offtopic discussions among Debian users and developers:
http://lists.alioth.debian.org/mailman/listinfo/d-community-offtopic
http://nuvreauspam.ro/gpg-transition.txt

Attachment: signature.asc
Description: Digital signature


Reply to: