Re: How to keep debian current??
On Sat, 2010-05-15 at 13:55 +0200, Wolodja Wentland wrote:
> On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 10:12 +0000, RyanJB wrote:
> > After much considering, I think I'll stick to lenny but I will install
> > some package from sid..
>
> That is probbaly the worst way to deal with your "need" for newer
> software, as it is quite hard to keep a mixed stable/sid system that
> could be considered "stable" as defined by Debian.
>
> Given that you claim to be inexperienced with Debian and/or .deb based
> distributions in general I would suggest one of the following ways to
> cure your "shiny new shit syndrome" ;)
>
> 1. Stable + backports
>
> This is probably the easiest way to get newer versions for packages
> given that they have been backported. You can find instructions on how
> to use backports on:
>
> http://backports.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=instructions
>
> 2. Stable + backports + simple sid backports
>
> If you "need" packages from sid that have not yet been backported, you
> can try to backport them yourself given that their dependencies can be
> satisfied in stable. The basic way to deal with this is:
>
> a. Add ONLY a "deb-src ..." line for sid to your sources.list.
> b. apt-get update / aptitude update
> c. aptitude install build-essential
> apt-get build-dep packagename
> apt-get -b source packagename
> d. Install the resultant debs.
>
> This last two approaches work well if you just need the newer version
> for a couple of packages, for example if the version of apache2 shipped
> with lenny does not support a feature you need.
>
> I am not sure if that is enough for you, but you might want to ask
> yourself first what you are trying to achieve eventually. *Why* do you
> need newer versions? What are you doing with your computer? What are
> your usage patterns? What features are missing from lenny that you
> *really* need?
>
> If you need them, just because you *always* want the newest upstream
> release, you can consider one of the following approaches:
>
> 3. Run testing or sid
>
> I think that running testing or sid is what you *might* actually want,
> but you have to prepare yourself for the occasional problem you have to
> fix yourself and you might need a sound understanding of Linux and
> Debian packaging in order to fix *some* of the problems that you might
> run into.
>
> That being said, I want to point out that I have been tracking testing
> for some time now and rarely faced an issue I could not fix. Moreover
> testing (and sid?) is actually quite stable (in the sense of "not
> breaking your system") and might be the best choice for your.
>
> In particular I have made good experiences with the following scheme:
>
> 1. Track stable for 6-12 months after the release
> 2. Track testing until it is released as stable
> 3. Goto 1
>
> 4. Use a different distribution
>
> Why don't you use one of the Debian-based distribution until you are
> more comfortable with Linux and Debian administration and therefore able
> to fix the occasional problem you might run into yourself?
>
> Don't get me wrong here - I don't want to argue against Debian, but
> there might actually be distributions that are developed with users like
> you in mind and you might actually be happier using one of those.
>
> Having said all that, I would suggest the following:
>
> Run stable and familiarise yourself with Debian and Linux, by reading
> the following manuals: (excerpts from the dpkg bot on #debian)
>
> 1. Debian Reference
>
> The Debian Reference will answer most of your questions about Debian. The
> latest version (v2) is at http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/debian-reference/ .
> Read it after installing Debian and before asking for support, as it is the
> closest thing Debian has to a manual. You can install this too, the package
> name is debian-reference: 'aptitude install debian-reference'
>
> 2. Rute User's Tutorial and Exposition.
>
> A fantastic book that is available at http://rute.2038bug.com/, can be
> purchased at Borders, or install the rutebook package from non-free. It covers
> Linux in a very non-distribution specific method. The start of the book is
> "Binary and Octal" and ends with "Security Auditing".
>
> 3. Newbiedoc
>
> http://newbiedoc.berlios.de/wiki/Debian_newbie_help_documentation
>
> Once you are familiar with Linux and Debian upgrade to testing and enjoy
> the pleasures of a rolling release.
Thank you for such an excellent response. I was going to comment that
Squeeze and Sid are more stable than many distributions but they still
have their issues. We had very much wanted to use Squeeze for a
potentially large but enterprise class deployment. After considerable
testing, we opted for Lenny + backports + the occasional adaptation from
Squeeze where absolutely necessary.
Most of our postponement of Squeeze was due to KDE 4.x which seemed an
excellent idea but not yet ready for enterprise use and we even tested
using Gnome but found there were other issues. Again, thanks for an
excellent response which I'm sure took some time to craft - John
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