Re: problem with SATA disk, difference between standard kernel and Debian kernel
On Saturday 03 January 2009 23:05:01 Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> On Sat, Jan 03, 2009 at 04:11:35PM -0600, lee wrote:
> > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 10:51:56PM +0000, Andrew M.A. Cater wrote:
> > > On Fri, Jan 02, 2009 at 03:00:41PM -0600, lee wrote:
> > > > On Thu, Jan 01, 2009 at 05:56:25PM -0200, Eduardo M KALINOWSKI wrote:
> > > > > lee wrote:
> > > > > > Well, how do you install on SATA disks when the installer can't
> > > > > > access them? It still has the option to load more modules from a
> > > > > > floppy disk, but I haven't had a floppy disk drive for years ...
> > > > > > With no system installed, you couldn't create those disks anyway.
>
> Specifics please: Machine name / model number / motherboard if
> homebuilt?
>
> Any output from dmesg (if it gets that far) likewise
>
> Output from lspci
>
> Output from lsmod
>
> Which installer are you using - Etch a.k.a Debian 4.0 or Lenny (upcoming
> Debian 5.0) ?
>
> Which kernel version appears to boot - 2.6.18 / 2.6.24 / 2.6.26?
>
> > > Go to the non-free archive for Debian packages. Look for
> > > firmware-non-free packages. I've recently had to use the bnx2
> > > drivers for Broadcom ethernet cards.
> >
> > The modules I need to access the disks come with standard and Debian
> > kernels. They are not non-free.
>
> If you know that they come with Debian's standard kernels and
> that they're there, is there any obvious reason why they're not
> included?
>
> > And then, when you look at http://www.debian.org/distrib/netinst, it
> > doesn't tell you that the installer is missing crucial modules to
> > access SATA disks (which are the default nowadays), or where to get
> > missing modules. There are also no floppy disk images of the installer
> > for download (like there used to be), which would allow you do
> > download another disk image containing more modules. Still the
> > installer keeps prompting for a floppy disk and tells you to insert
> > the disk, just to find out that there is no floppy disk drive
> > installed.
>
> Have you _seen_ how big kernels are lately? : floppies (even if you can
> find working floppy disks) ceased to be viable about the time Linux
> went to kernel version 2.6.
>
> > Why doesn't the page tell you, like it did when floppy images were
> > available, that you might need more modules and offers you to download
> > another CD image? Why aren't those modules just on the installer CD?
>
> I think the release notes mention things like this: the modules
> probably are on an installer CD: do you know which modules they
> might be?
>
> > It's not that the CD image would get too big to fit on a CD or to
> > download --- and if it was, there could always be the minimal
> > installer image for computers older than 4 or 5 years and another one
> > with all that's missing on the minimal image.
> >
> > The installer could also give you instructions about how to get more
> > modules or just download the missing modules automatically during the
> > installation, just like it does with other things.
>
> The instructions below are for those things that are explicitly
> non-free. It's also based on the Lenny installer (which does tell you
> if non-free firmware is required).
>
> > > Download the .deb on another machine. [Assuming you're using Linux
> > > here].
> >
> > What do you do when you don't have one? Buy a windoze CD and another
> > hard disk, install windoze on that disk, get the needed files, install
> > Debian, sell the windoze CD and disk?
>
> If you don't have another machine: borrow a friend who has a USB stick /
> SD card and access to a Linux machine. Your email address suggests that
> you may be in .de - which has towns with Linux user groups / internet
> cafe's.
>
> > And before you can do that, how do you know where to get the missing
> > kernel modules for the installer, and how do you know which ones are
> > missing? I'd like to know that for the next time I'll try to install.
>
> Boot with a live CD?
>
> > > Carry the USB stick across to the machine you need it on. Boot the
> > > Lenny installer - at some point the dialog will tell you that you need
> > > non-free modules and will ask you for a floppy/USB stick to load the
> > > modules from.
> >
> > No, it didn't tell me that it needs modules. It only told me that no
> > disks had been detected. If I hadn't known that a module is missing
> > and that it does work once the right module is available, I could have
> > concluded that Linux is just too old to run on even "old" (like two or
> > three years) hardware ...
>
> Kernel version you are trying to install?
>
> > > Insert the stick when prompted.
> >
> > The installer offers to read modules from a floppy disk, not from an
> > USB device.
> >
> > > > These modules need to be available to the installer out of the
> > > > box. It's not like I'd be using some unusual hardware ...
> > >
> > > What is not unusual to you is unusual to other people :)
> >
> > What is unusual about SATA disks and controllers?
> >
> > Go to your favourite computer store --- now or a year (or even longer)
> > ago --- and try to buy a computer or a mainboard that doesn't have
> > SATA disks or an SATA controller. You'd have a very hard time to find
> > one.
>
> I can probably find _at least_ one.
>
> > Also keep in mind that this was the amd64 installer. Which system that
> > can run 64bit software doesn't have an SATA controller?
>
> Two out of the three of the AMD64 systems under my desks here (all using
> old motherboards :) ).
>
> > > The reason that the modules are in non-free is precisely because
> > > they have licence conditions or similar which prevent us putting
> > > them in the Debian archive proper.
> >
> > The "AHCI SATA support" in the standard and Debian kernels creates
> > something that is non-free?
>
> Check BIOS settings carefully: if the BIOS will allow you, try setting
> the Legacy compatible options if available - the drives may then appear to
> be PATA.
I am slightly puzzled by this. I installed Etch as a dual boot on a Sata
drive on a m/c with an AMD64 processor some while ago without any problems or
issues at all. That m/c has no IDE HDDs. Only IDE optical drives.
I have since dist-upgraded to Lenny. I have not installed Lenny on that
particular m/c from the installer, but I would not expect to have problems as
I did not with Etch. ??
Lisi
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