Re: Etch status..?
On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 05:36:39PM EST, Douglas Tutty wrote:
> Hi Cga,
>
> I've put my comments inline to make things clearer (I hope).
>
> On Sun, Nov 26, 2006 at 02:39:38PM -0500, cga2000 wrote:
[..]
> > Everything went well until I tried to boot the 2.6.17 kernel.
>
> Do I read this right?: You're OK running Etch with kernel 2.6.8 and the
> problem is booting to 2.6.17?
Yes,
I now have three kernels installed on this etch system.
1. The original 2.4.27 that came with sarge
2. The 2.6.8 kernel that I installed before upgrading to etch
3. The 2.6.17 kernel that was installed from the linux-image deb.
Both the 2.4.27 and 2.7.8 kernel boot without any problem.
Both configure my pcmcia NIC and acquire an IP address from my ISP.
The 2.6.17 kernel on the other hand dies almost immediately.
> Also, please confirm that you are using aptitude. When having troubles
> you can (I always do anyway) use the interactive UI. Aptitude is the
> smartest package manager and is the Debian recommended one.
I haven't yet quite figured out how to use the ncurses full-screen
version of aptiude.
I normally use apt-get or command-line aptitude.
> > Null pointer or something and dies with a kernel oops.
> >
> Hopefully some who know about kernel oops can answer that one. I'm
> assuming its a module problem related to hotplug fighting with udev.
That's the general idea.
Since I did an "aptitude install linux-image.2.6.17.3.." there would
appear to be a bug here.. I'm still confused about the installer asking
me to manually remove the hotplug package. If it must be done .. why
doesn't _he_ (she?) do it..???
> > Can a 2.6.17 kernel and the older 2.4.27 & 2.6.8 share the same
> > partitions -- /etc/init.d startup scripts & config files, eg. ??
> >
>
> Yes. The init.d scripts themselves are kernel-independant.
I'll take your word for it.
> > Only thing that looked a bit suspicious along the way is that when I did
> > an apt-get install of this more recent kernel .. when apt does his
> > "setup" bit right at the end.. well .. there was this very visible
> > message like with 2-3 lines of asterisks before and after the message ..
> > asking me to remove/purge the hotplug package .. or rather the hotplug
> > stuff in /etc/init.d ... IIRC.
> >
>
> The problem is that Etch's kernels need to use udev which is
> incompatible with hotplug.
So apt is not doing his job.
> > So I did a dpkg -l hotplug and it turned out to be in "rc" status -- "r"
> > as in "removed" but "c" as in "configuration files are still in there"
> > (and scripts probably) .. that is how I read it.
> >
> > Now for one one thing I have no clue how I should go about removing that
> > stuff .. do I do a "dpkg -L hotplug" and delete/rename the files ..
> >
> > And another thing ... isn't that likely to break the boot process for
> > the older kernels..?
> >
>
> Does your existing set __need__ to use hotplug?
I have no clue
:-(
I definitely do not need any hotplugging capabilities for my PC cards.
Only reason I might remove them from the laptop is when trying to
diagnose some fishy issue like this one.
> I could never get it to work and since I didn't have anything I was
> hotplugging anyway, I didn't use it. I figured out which kernel
> modules were needed (read the kernel-xx doc package) and used modconf
> to get things set up correctly. Etch with udev does this all on the
> fly, but without udev it doesn't fly.
:-)
> I had similar problems when I was going from 2.2.* to 2.4; I wanted to
> take time to get 2.4 working right but then I'd have to get some real
> work done and needed a functioning system and want to boot 2.2
>
> The problem as noted in the Etch release notes is that the module names
> and sometimes parameters change when going from one kernel major to
> another. This means, for example, that /etc/modules could be invalid
> for one of them.
Agreed. Sounds to me like if you need to boot a wide array of kernels for
testing purposes it would be nice to have separate /etc's for each of them.
> Assuming that you're now running Etch,
I am running etch.
> to remove hotplug, since you know
> the name of the one package, use dpkg directly: dpkg -P hotplug
> and see what that gives.
It's marked "rc" in "dpkg -l hotplug"
> > Not sure I understand this separation of "kernel upgrade" vs.
> > distribution upgrade would work ..
> >
>
> Kernel versions are brought forward into new releases for just this
> reason. You can run an up-to-date release with an older kernel. I
> think that they continue to get security updates for about two years
> which means that you have two years to work on this.
That's okay ..
I've already spent one year on this upgrade ..
:-)
> >
> > Do they get written anywhere where I could retrieve them after the fact?
>
> Kernel messages should go to /var/log/syslog among others.
I'd have to boot it again to be 100% sure but I'm quite confident the
oops occurs way before klogd/sylogd take off.
> If you find that they are __only__ showing up on the screen (console),
> you could use a console= kernel command line and send console messages
> to the serial port as well as the screen and capture that with another
> computer.
Don't have one right now. I'll check if I can use the Prnt Scren key
to at least get a hcopy.
> > Funnily enough, while it's nice to have vim 7.0 and some other more
> > contemporary stuff in user space .. 2.6.8 doesn't do me any good at
> > all
>
> My 486 is faster on 2.6 than it was on 2.2 or 2.4. I think its a
> smarter scheduler or something.
Everything appears to be.. I even intalled gnome & kde (by mistake) on
one of my prior attempts and I was quite surprised to note that it took
them only about 10-15 seconds to initialize.
> >
> > .. I need 2.6.13+ ..
> >
> > In any case it's pretty clear now that this had nothing to do with
> > my hardware not being supported .. wouldn't be one bit surprised if
> > other PC card NICs were affected in the same manner .. all of them
> > possibly ..
> >
> > Among the many things I tried was playing with a number of live CD's
> > and I found that the morphix-based ELive with a 2.6.11 kernel
> > recognized and configured my NIC correctly and obtained a DHCP lease
> > w/o a problem.
> >
>
> They probably do not have hotplug and do use udev.
Not sure .. I thought hotplug disappeared with 2.6.13 ¿¿
> To summarize:
>
> Confirm that you are now running Etch with a 2.4 kernel and all is
> well, that its booting the 2.6 that is the problem.
No.
I _am_ running etch and the 2.6.8 kernel works fine.
The problem I am having is with the 2.6.17 kernel.
> If you can put the modules you need (as determined for now by hotplug)
> in /etc/modules then you can try removing hotplug with dpkg -P
> hotplug.
I'll try that .. A bit annoying if it screws up my other kernels .. I
have already begun customizing this install and would hate to start
over.
> Once hotplug is out of the way, you can install udev.
I think you're wrong. udev is already installed and if I boot a kernel
that's too old to support it I get some bootup messages to that effect.
> Once udev is installed you can try booting the 2.6 kernel.
>
> Note that the module names in /etc/modules from the 2.4 kernel will at
> least cause some error messages when the 2.6 kernel tries to load
> them. At worst I suppose they could cause a kernel oops.
... hence my previous comment that there should be a
/boot/etc/linux.release.version.minor
directory for each kernerl.
> If those modules are not required for actually getting a command line
> under 2.4, you could mv modules modules.2.4 the reboot to 2.6 and cp
> modules.2.4 modules then reboot 2.4 I know this isn't a long term
> solution but its at least a work-around while you troubleshoot. This
> is what I did when I went 2.2 to 2.4.
Like .. use a rescue disc to set up your system before you boot a
different kernel..??
Hey .. why not .. :-)
> I hate kernel upgrades.
No .. I think they're fun .. The problem is that seeing is believing ..
and until I am able to boot a new kernel .. I am pretty much incapable
of really learning anything about it.. Bit of a catch22 where I'm
concerned.
> Another suggestion:
>
> If you make an installation media (CD, usb stick), what happens when
> you boot this? Is all your hardware recognized?
I'd have to learn to do that. And right now apart from holidays I never
have more than a couple hours at a stretch to work on this.
>
> There may be features of the Etch installer that you would like to
> take advantage of which __may__ suggest that you want to reinstall
> Etch when it is stable. For example, I will see if the installer will
> run on my 486 so I can use raid1 on my old IDE drives and put LVM over
> that, just like I do on my new box.
> Hang in there.
Looks like I'm pretty close to a solution now ..
Thanks much for help and encouragement.
Thanks
cga
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