Re: [OT] voting (was: Slashdot and media accuracy (was Re: Improved Debian Project Emergency Communications))
On Sun, Dec 07, 2003 at 05:40:32AM +0000, ben_foley@web.de wrote:
> On Sat, Dec 06, 2003 at 02:25:18PM -0700, Monique Y. Herman wrote:
> > On Sat, 06 Dec 2003 at 21:13 GMT, csj penned:
> > >>
> > >> As usual, science fiction was here before. C.F., _The Songs of
> > >> Distant Earth_ by Arthur C. Clarke.
> > >
> > > You do remember that the first generation colonists in the novel were
> > > "manufactured" from gene samples and raised by machines that taught
> > > them a sanitized version of human history and culture? They were
> > > genetically and culturally engineered to be altruistic. So maybe our
> > > best hope lies in breeding out our baser instincts.
> > >
> >
> > Somehow, I doubt that "baser insticts" can be bred out, especially by
> > just not teaching about them.
> >
> > That whole "those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it" line
As the most recent user of this phrase on this list, let me join this
discussion:
The sense in which I meant 'know history' was to know what has happened
in prior times when a certain course of action or a certain line of reasoning
was used. For humans, instincts are stuff like the ability to acquire and
use language, the ability to engage in thought about what others are thinking,
etc. Clarke's postulates seeem to me foolish, but amusing. We don't have
adequate definitions of what we mean by altruism in humans. Our lives are
rather complex, and what might seem altruistic at first sight can be, on
more deep examination, 'enlightened self-interest', and visa-versa.
Also, cultural engineering is not, and very likely will never be. Except,
perhaps if you re-define it to mean what is now called 'spin'. But spin
is a very shallow maneuver in politics, hardly something that deserves
respect.
> > ...
> >
> >
> given the consistency with which the old mistakes are repreated, i
> seriously wonder if that adage holds true.
>
For me, the consistency with which mistakes are repeated, is a proof
of the ignorance of history on the part of the players, not a
disproof of the addage.
It is hard to determine just exactly what is the special thing that
makes homo sapiens different from other great apes. Some say there
is no essential difference, others say that we were create different
by God. I think we have a special ability to see ourselves from
'outside', and to think about how others see us. But others claim
that this is an illusion. But if one chooses to live within the
illusion, knowing history is surely better than not knowing it.
And if one pretends to reject the illusion, ... whatever ...
--
Paul E Condon
pecondon@peakpeak.com
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