Paul E Condon wrote: > Suppose, all human life were to perish. In that case would the value of > pi (3.14...) perish as well? The value of pi is dependent on the geometrical concept of a "circle" having a "radius" and a "circumference". These are human-created ideas, not a priori "facts" existing in the universe. So if there were no humans around (nor any other beings that view the world similarly), then pi would have no meaning. A slightly better (because seemingly less abstract) example would be gravity. Without humans, would there still be a gravitational force? Or to put it another way, did Newton "discover" or "create" gravity? Well, on the one hand, objects behave today just as they did before Newton, and will presumably continue to behave the same way if Newton and his works are forgotten. But to say that there is a "force" of gravity is not a statement about the universe; it is a mental model, essentially a metaphor, that is useful for describing the observed behavior of the universe. To say that "There is a force called 'gravity' which draws masses together" is semantically imprecise. It is better to say, "Objects in the observable universe behave AS IF there were a force which draws masses together." Gravitational force is a metaphor, not a fact, created by humans as a way of describing the observed (by humans) behavior of objects. It has no necessary value to other (hypothetical) beings who may view the world quite differently and may have come up with their own ways of talking about the phenomena they observe. So without humans, in a sense there would be no more gravity -- not that the universe would behave any differently in consequence. Craig
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