Re: debian

[cr <cr@orcon.net.nz>]

On Saturday 21 June 2003 21:55, Alex Malinovich wrote:

> >
> > Well, popular reviews are usually aimed at 'new users', or intelligent
> > amateurs, and from their point of view the install is a major
> > consideration. (Professionals probably won't be reading that sort of
> > reviews and the 'just-buying-it-to-play-games-on' crowd won't be reading
> > any reviews anyway). I honestly wouldn't recommend Deb to a new-to-Linux
> > user.   Knoppix maybe (not that I've used it), or Red Hat, and maybe
> > graduate to Deb when they have a handle on what Linux is like.
> >
> > If I didn't have the familiarity with what was going on, gained from
> > maybe half-a-dozen Red Hat installs / setup sessions, I think Woody's
> > installer would have baffled me.   Knowing roughly what to expect is 99%
> > of the battle. As it was it took three install attempts before I got one
> > (with X and PPP working) that was good enough to switch to.
>
> My first ever Linux install was done with Potato a year and a half ago.
> The only experience I had had with anything remotely linux related
> before then was using cygwin for a few months. So essentially I knew a
> few basic bash commands. I knew nothing about the kernel, the
> filesystem, or anything. I had no real idea what modules were, and the
> whole "sources" thing baffled me. And, worst of all, I didn't find out
> about this list until AFTER I had a working install. :)
>
> But I pulled out an old Pentium 133 I had lying around, and started
> trying to install Debian on it. After my 2nd try, I had a working
> installation. One more wipe and reinstall and I had the basic hang of
> the installer. Then it was time to repartition the disk on my actual
> desktop machine and get to work. 3 months later, every last semblance of
> Windows and proprietary software had been wiped from my hard drive.
> (I've since had to install a few closed-source Linux programs/drivers,
> but I'm maintaining a relatively free system. I never thought twice
> about "stealing" software through the use of cracks while I was using
> Windows, but now the very thought of it makes me feel dirty. Both the
> stealing aspect and the fact that I had a REASON to do it. Free software
> literally lets me sleep better at night. :)

Well, I have no conscience whatever about stealing Micro$oft software.   The 
way I look at it, if I'm forced to use their software for any particular 
application it's because M$ have managed to coerce almost everybody into 
using it, squashed any competition, and got obscenely rich by doing so.
However, other shareware I do have a conscience about, I've even registered 
some.   ;)

> And, just so I can join in the foray of the auto-detect flame-fest here,
> if a user doesn't know his hardware well enough to be able to pick it
> from a list he shouldn't be installing an OS in the first place.

Errr, *wrong*.    Much of my gear is second-hand, and of course the first 
thing the original owners invariably do is lose the manuals.  :(    My 
current motherboard is the first one I've ever had  a manual for, ditto my S3 
VGA card, and I've *never* owned any monitor of a brand that's been listed in 
the 'X' config options.    

If I ever help to install Linux on any of my friends' computers, I expect 
they'll have lost the manuals too.    So auto-detect could be very handy.   

Both with RedHat and Debian, I've found that  'X' configuration was the 
biggest single problem.   Both RedHat *and* Deb failed to come up with any 
monitor setting that would work, failed to start X with 'generic' monitor, 
and I had to experiment extensively with XF86Config before it would work.   
In fact, if I run RedHat I use my S3 card  because I can't make it work with 
my on-board SiS/AGP video driver; with Debian it's the opposite.  
  
Yet, both RedHat and Mandrake's graphical installers and Debian's penguin 
logo display fine with *whatever* card I'm running - what is it the 
installers know that they won't tell X config ?    :(

cr