Re: [OT, FLAME] Linux Sucks
On Wed, Mar 26, 2003 at 12:42:38PM -0500, Roberto Sanchez wrote:
> >It's not a question of *me* not wanting a GUI. I'm asking whyinhell
> >*anyone* would want one. What does it enhance?
> >
> >What's the design goal? So far the only thing I've ever seen in print is
> >that it needs to be done because the lamers want it.
> >
> >Debian strives for technical excellence. So supposedly, adding a GUI to
> >the installer improves things somehow?
>
> Unfortunately, we live in a GUI point-and-click world now. If we expect to
> see Linux on the desktop really take off, this is something every distro
> will need to implement.
I think you've just made an unfounded logical leap. Why does _every_
distribution need a graphical installer to make linux on the desktop a
reality? Clearly the answer is, not every distro needs a graphical
installer. If a distribution wants to cater to server-type machines,
that's ok (it's great, really). If a distribution wants to cater to
elites, that's fine too. If a distribution wants to ensure that the
installer works when the console is a serial port, that's wonderful.
Besides, linux on the desktop is a rather nebulous term. I know
several people who would love to roll out desktop boxes running linux
in their company; this would prevent joe clueless user from playing
solitaire, installing backgrounds and mouse cursors, etc. I suspect
you mean something very different, where linux becomes the Windows XP
killer. That may or may not happen. Personally, I think there are
two problems with the latter vision; the average (desktop) computer
user views the computer as an appliance, but the average computer is
too costly and not reliable enough to be an appliance. Secondly, as
long as software companies feel they can make money and "lock in
market share" by releases patent encumbered software (think
audio/video codecs) and as long as major players _use_ that software,
linux is fighting an uphill battle since linux represents the opposite
philosophy, that of openness.
> You are right, though, that a GUI installer will add nothing in terms of
> functionality. But, the "technical elite" (if that is what you want to
> call them) can still use the CLI and CURSES interfaces when available.
>
> In my case, I use GUI tools just because I have only been using Linux for 6
> months and haven't learned everything yet. For example, last month I got
> DSL but I haven't learned iptables yet. So I installed firestarter and
> voila. Now I am up and running until I can learn the intricacies (which I
> want to). But, if I decide to not learn iptables the thing still works.
Devil's advocate: how do you knmow firestarter does what it says it is
doing if you don't understand iptables? Please don't take this as a
personal attack; I just feel if you don't understand the technology,
using said technology is fraught with peril. For a real world
example, think "routing protocols" and look hard at the internet.
There is breakage every day caused by ignorance.
> A GUI interface is not mutually exclusive to technical excellence. I think
> that Linux needs to be marketed to the average user. When more people
> start using it more third party apps get written and more current apps get
> impoved causing an overall improvement. The ultimate design goal should be
> overall improvement of the product. The GUI will help achieve that in a
> roundabout way.
Ok, linux needs to be marketed to the average user. Why does that
equate to "debian must satisfy the needs of all users" ? Note: I'm
not saying debian shouldn't be easier to install, I just want you to
think about why things that are good for "linux" may not necessarily
be good for debian[1].
Finally, let me quote Doug Gwyn:
GUIs normally make it simple to accomplish simple actions and
impossible to accomplish complex actions.
Ah, the random sig generator comes through again :-)
[1] You realise debian is about more than just linux, right?
--
Nathan Norman - Incanus Networking mailto:nnorman@incanus.net
Perilous to all of us are the devices of an art deeper than we
ourselves possess.
-- Gandalf the Grey
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