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Re: Where is Debian going?




Drat the itchy send finger. The last message was sent too soon. Sorry.


On Wed, 10 Jul 2002, Derrick 'dman' Hudson wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 10, 2002 at 05:51:20PM -0400, Thatcher Ulrich wrote:
> | On Jul 11, 2002 at 02:04 +0800, csj wrote:
> 
> | The Toy Story code names are cute but totally confusing; I say ditch 'em.
> 
> Everyone has names -- even RH and Mandrake (Seawolf, Enigma, Cooker).
> There's nothing wrong with the names, really.
> 
> -D

I like "poetry" in names. The Toy Story names are cute, even a bit poetic,
The names suffer from a bit of obscurity.  Even t hough I am an old-timer
(I started with 0.93) I still have to think what the name, say, Buzz
(LightYear), means. I would NOT be willing to eliminate the Toy Story
names in favor of exclusive use of "unstable" "testing" and "stable".

Even if I do have some confusion occasionally.

Just a thought.

David Teague



> Date: Wed, 10 Jul 2002 18:49:40 -0500
> From: Derrick 'dman' Hudson <dman@dman.ddts.net>
> To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
> Cc: csj <csj@mindgate.net>
> Subject: Re: Where is Debian going?
> 
> | > On Wed, 10 Jul 2002 11:03:17 -0500
> | > "Jamin W. Collins" <jcollins@asgardsrealm.net> wrote:
> 
> | > Maybe instead of stable, testing, and unstable, we can have: server
> | > (must be stable), desktop (with newer but not bleeding edge stuff) and
> | > developer (because they're the ones who're in the best position to fix
> | > it).
> 
> As long as the names' connotations convey their intent, it really
> doesn't matter what they are.
> 
> Just be careful with calling one release "server"  and one "desktop" :
>     Do you want people to think that they can only run "server" on a server?
>         (I run testing/unstable on some servers, and I say it is still
>         better than RH)
>     Do you want people to think they can't install debian on their
>         desktop because "desktop" doesn't have official CDs?
> 
> (that's what [wc]ould happen if you keep the same release model and
> just change the names)
> 
> | MHO newbie opinion: emphasize version numbers (2.x, 3.x, 4.x) and
> 
> That sounds fine for a "you can only get 'stable'" release method
> (like every commercial software house runs it), however what version
> is sid/unstable?  What about testing?  Only stable releases have a
> version number.  If you tried to tack a version on testing and
> unstable, you would have to change it every time the dist changed,
> which would overflow my capacity for a version.  Using a name is the
> simplest way to label a moving target.
> 
> How hard is it really to learn that
>     "unstable"  means latest-and-greatest-but-who-knows-if-it-breaks-your-system
>     "testing"   means tested-a-bit-and-should-work-but-YMMV
>     "stable"    means tested-a-lot-and-is-really-stable
> 
> Then you create a map that is correct until the next release, which
> right now looks like
>     sid     <-> unstable
>     woody   <-> testing
>     potato  <-> stable
> 
> It is 6 names, but 3 of them are redundant.  Half of the names are
> "timeless"; that is, they will refer to the same thing later as they
> do now.  The other half are relative names; they refer to a certain
> stage in the release process, and those are moving targets.
> 
> Since there are 6 different concepts at work here (5 really), 6
> different names are needed.
> 
> | start using mnemonics that are less intimidating to the casual user,
> | or just de-emphasize the mnemonics altogether.
> 
> I think the real "problem" there is that debian's development model is
> so different from every other software vendor that people find it
> "confusing" (IOW new and different).  In fact, every other OSS project
> uses mnemonic names like "stable", "released", and "CVS" to refer to
> the different stages of their release cycle.  Most projects aren't
> quite as large nor do they have as many stages, though.
> 
> -- 
>  
> The crucible for silver and the furnace for gold,
> but the Lord tests the heart.
>         Proverbs 17:3
>  
> http://dman.ddts.net/~dman/
> 
> 



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