Re: Slink upgrade and xwindows
I would like to say a couple of things, I am just seeing this for the
first time. I do understand now the reason that these packages were
activated, and I do appreciate the work that Branden and others do/have
done for Debian. I am sorry if I offended any developers as my comment
was pretty harsh.
I also have some comments about the upgrade, development in general,
etc. which I will insert in context below.
>On Sun, Mar 14, 1999 at 07:32:59PM -0800, George Bonser wrote:
> Well, maybe I should READ those package descriptions :)
I *did* read the description in question.
>I should make this the offical motto of the Debian X packages
>I don't know how I am supposed to "support" XFree86 if people won't read:
>1) the Debian release notes
>2) the Debian package descriptions
>3) anything in /usr/doc/* with the string "README" in the filename
>4) anything in /usr/doc/* with the string "FAQ" in the filename
>5) a prompt in the xbase postinst that says:
I honestly feel that this is a bit much to ask of someone who is
installing or especially upgrading software.
If people read all of these documents they wouldnt have time for
anything else especially considering that x is only one part of the
whole distribution. That is why people use distributions- so that they
won't have to read every document about every package in the
distribution. I believe that the job of developers is to make
installation and maintainance easy.
I upgraded to stay up to date, install a couple of new packages and be
able to install new packages in the future without hassles. I did read
a lot of the great x reorganization but I just don't have all the time
in the world.
Also, I uninstalled xbase as soon as my upgrade was done. However I
don't remember anything telling me to uninstall the two packages xdm and
xfs, although I did remember something about them in the great x
revolution.
>The xbase package is obsolete and may be removed (with "dpkg --remove xbase").
>If you are upgrading from Debian 2.0 or earlier, you should read the
>usr/doc/xbase/README.Debian file. Read this file now? (y/n) [y]
Did that.
>There is NO WAY this message did not appear at the time the xbase package
>was upgraded.
>I sometimes wonder why I bother writing any documentation at all. People
>will just ignore it and then chime in with profound insights like
Your documentation is fine. Keep up the good job.
>"THIS----------------------------------SUCKS!!!!!!!!"
>when anything changes.
I don't say that everytime that something changes.
This was a big system change that could have been avoided. To be
specific, you could have written into the install script something that
asked the user if they wanted x to run at bootup and also mention that
getting a console will be undoable, or a real hassle anyway.
I got rid of the problem in short order. I read about linux all the
time, I am no expert but know more than the average linux user I have
met- I'm not trying to brag, I'm just saying that I really work at it
and I feel I do pretty good. I read but aren't we trying to make linux
usable by a broader spectrum of user?
>I have tried very hard to get the Debian XFree86 packages into a state
>where they reliably meet two goals:
> 1) they help out the user who doesn't know X inside and out
> 2) they stay out of the way of the user who knows exactly what he's doing
I don't mean to slam your work Branden, I think its great. Please just
take this as a suggestion and a lesson in development. Being a good
developer is a hard job, it requires a lot of insight into not only
users needs but thier limitations. If I had not read the great x
reoganization (and I imagine that a great many upgraders didn't) I would
have had a much harder time of it.
Please don't slam people for not reading everything. That is why you
are needed- because they don't have time, or maybe they just aren't
capable of understanding everything- again, that is why you are needed.
>Needless to say, they are far from perfect in achieving these ends, but if
>you have an argument that the X packages as they were a year ago when I
>took over maintainership were better at doing the above than they are now,
>I'd like to hear it.
I like the new organization, I switched from Red Hat just because of the
additional level of control in debian- just because I was bummed about
one thing doesn't mean that *I* don't like the new organization.
Thanks for the great system, I'm sorry I offended you. Please consider
what I said about avoiding this sort of thing and when that approach
might be called for.
Bill Lacy
>--
>G. Branden Robinson |
>Debian GNU/Linux | If encryption is outlawed, only outlaws
>branden@ecn.purdue.edu | will @goH7OjBd7*dnfk=<q4fDj]Kz?.
>cartoon.ecn.purdue.edu/~branden/ |
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