Re: man missing ?
hello there, to get a ppp connection running. use pppconfig. the package
doumentation is store in /usr/doc/<package_name> directory. if you need
more help i or some one can help you. another good modem package is
minicomm is very much like dos's telix. do a dpkg --help. I love dpkg
and the flags it uses to find out about what is on my linux box. Let me
know if there is anything I can do for you.
Paul
On Wed, 27 Jan 1999 MallarJ@aol.com wrote:
In a message dated 1/27/99 11:23:36 AM Central Standard Time,
D.Wright@open.ac.uk writes:
> > I'm beginning to think I'm talking to a brick wall on this, but I do have
a
> > few more comments...
>
> That's a bit unfair. I'm quite happy to cease this conversation so you
> can talk to thin air instead.
You're right, that was a bit unfair. I guess I was frustrated with the fact
that every response I got was basically, "the boot disks are too big already",
and "the man pages aren't necessary to the install", and "what do you want, a
full blown Windows-like installation? - then use Windows!".
> If, by this, you mean when dselect finishes the first time (Have fun!),
> then, as far as I can see, you should have man-db and many manpages
> available, viz.
>
> ii makedev 1.6-32 Creates special device files in /dev.
> ii man-db 2.3.10-65 Display the on-line manual.
> ii manpages 1.19-1 Man pages about using a Linux system.
> ii manpages-dev 1.19-1 Linux-development man pages.
> ii mawk 1.3.3-2 a pattern scanning and text proces...
>
> and, of course, all the manpages dealing with the packages installed,
> which are contained in the packages themselves.
One of the biggest beefs I had about installation was lack of knowing what I
needed to do and when. I installed Debian, and ran into dselect. It totally
confused me, and I didn't have a clue what to do next and where (the dselect
docs weren't a whole lot of help). I got out of dselect and started to read
up on it, and ask questions, and search the net for docs. Unfortunately, I
didn't read or know that I could use the ftp method to get the files I needed
- I thought I had to configure my modem and ISP connection first - and I still
don't really know how to do that now. I spent countless hours just figuring
out what files dselect had to have (required and important packages),
downloading them to my zip drive, and installing them.
My biggest frustration was after I first installed Debian (without finishing
dselect). I had Linux running, but was clueless as to what to do next.
Everyone pointed to the man and info pages, but I didn't have any, and didn't
know where to get them. It was another week before I figured out that they
weren't part of the basic install, I had to get them and install them. All I
knew was I got the usual "bash: command not found" message when I tried to man
something.
> If you mean earlier than this, I think I need clarification to understand
> exactly how you mean to use them, or expect others to. It has always
> seemed to me that the HOWTOs are more useful than the manpages at
> this stage. Most of the things that one would normally do with a command
> (for example, adduser for the first ordinary user) are wrapped up by
> the installation script, until dselect exits.
I agree with that, in the early stages, the HOWTOs probably are more helpful
than man pages. Those, however, are also installed via packages, and for a
newbie just starting the install, I hadn't a clue where they were, or what I
needed to do to get them.
> What I would prefer to hear is "I felt I needed information about foo"
> or I needed "man bar" when I was at such-and-such during installation.
> Am I being fair?
Totally fair, and I agree with you. Thanks for taking the time to actually
find out what I was after - I'm still new at Linux/Debian, and it seems now
that I wasn't expressing my wishes accurately.
> If you really must have man pages as background before beginning to
> install Debian at all (and I can understand that), well they are
> available in many places and formats all across the internet. You
> may have come across them if you've ever used gnu software that's
> been ported to other platforms like DOS.
I guess the point of all of this is something that I'm sure has been discussed
before, under different context; from a newbies point of view, Debian/Linux is
confusing, intimidating, and frustrating. Perhaps we need better install
docs, perhaps we need better help during installtion or while using dselect.
Perhaps a HOWTO on what your first steps should be. I'd certainly be willing
to contribute to that effort in any way I can. But in any case, this is
something that needs to be added to the base installation. In the simplest
form, when you finish the installation (before going to dselect), maybe a line
or two could be displayed that would tell you where the help files are and how
to get them, some quick info about using the ftp method of dselect, or
something to that affect.
By the way, just where is the documentation on how to use the ftp method of
dselect? I still haven't run across it.... in particular, how do you set up
the connection, does it work with PPP, what number will it dial, etc?
-Jay
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