[Date Prev][Date Next] [Thread Prev][Thread Next] [Date Index] [Thread Index]

Re: Is this really the right thing to do?



Helge Hafting wrote:
> 
> [...]
> > > X-+-xbase
> > >   |
> > >   +-xservers
> > >   |
> > >   +-xfonts
> > >
> This looks good.  Of course the groups should be collapsable so
> the user can get where he wants fast.
> >
> >       Yes, this is what I was thinking of.  Right now the only way to
> > 'associate' packages with one another, besides the section name, is to
> > use a common prefix in the name so they show up together in the same
> > place in dselect's screen.  Imagine a user looking at the huge list of
> > packages (in X11 section) that start with 'x'.  Yes, the dependencies
> > will auto-select most of the necessary packages if one is picked by the
> > user, but when I did this by picking xbase, I believe 'xterm' never got
> > auto-selected, nor is the user made aware of other 'significantly
> > related' packages like the other xfont and xserver packages.  How would
> > a new user with little experience with Unix/X11 know he needs 'xterm'?
> >
> xterm isn't necessary, I use rxvt instead, and the splitting of X11
> let me install without xterm, which is good.
> The problem of needing *some* sort of terminal can be solved by having
> both xterm and rxvt provide the same "terminal" capability, and have
> x-base suggest the "terminal" stuff.  It shouldn't depend on it though,
> one can imagine an useful x-installation without a terminal.


	Nothing wrong with what you say above.  The problem is, you and I know
what xterm and rxvt are.  We don't need to be told they are related to
X11, or that at least one of them is really needed to use X11.  A user
unfamiliar with X11, will, in dselect's select display for the section
X11, see a huge list of alphabetically sorted files where most start
with 'x' in the name.  'rxvt' will be toward the middle of the list and
'xterm' will be towards the end.  The rest of the X11 debs will be
interspersed with other packages that start with 'x'.
	Maybe a policy of a common prefix would be sufficient.  Would having
xterm and rxvt change their package names to 'X11-xterm' and 'X11-rxvt',
be ok?  Or should dpkg/apt be modified to understand the concept of deb
package 'groups'?  Imagine a 'group' display in dselect of the X11
section, which not only lists xterm and rxvt together, but also shows
they are components of the X11 software system (X11 apps would show up
individually, or in their own 'group' if necessary).


> >       There is one other 'association' issue that is getting worse.  Imagine
> > selecting the gnome package suite.  When I did this recently, I ended up
> > with more than *30* packages being selected for gnome support.  Now
> > suppose the user wants to remove gnome to try out KDE, for example (lets
> > just assume they are mutually exclusive).  There is no reasonable way
> > for this user to figure out which installed packages were installed for
> > gnome.  I guess what I'm suggesting is that the packages need to
> > 'remember' *why* they were selected, by the user, or auto-selected
> > because of dependency requirements on a given package.  When the user
> > goes to delete gnome from his system, the other packages that were
> > installed only because of dependencies, can 'inform' the user, somehow,
> > that they are no longer needed.
> 
> An option for showing only those packages that nothing depends on
> could be useful.  Or a flag for every installed package showing if
> there is dependencies.
> 
> Helge Hafting
> 


-- 
Ed C.


Reply to: