Re: Debian DSELECT
On Mon, 14 Sep 1998, Kent West wrote:
<snip>
> difficult for me to wade through. Typically I come away from a three-hour
> documentation-reading session having gained nothing. I've often thought
> about contributing to the documentation projects, yet until I understand
> how the thing works, I can't write about it. And so far, a couple of months
> into Linux, I'm next to clueless about how anything works.
I've always found 'xman' handy if I didn't know what I was looking for -
you're guaranteed to stumble onto something that will put you on the
right track.
> However, I realize that Linux has up until recently been an OS for the
> technically elite; accordingly I've resigned myself to not expecting quick
> answers. On the other hand, until things get easier to do, the masses won't
> be embracing the technically superior Linux over Windows.
Linux was never targeted at the masses (well to be honest, it has no real
target market at all). The masses buy Windows, Spice Girls, and
McDonald's. The Linux community recognizes quality and integrity.
> One of the things I'd like to see is a centralized control panel type of
> thing. Name it something like SYSEDIT or CONTROLPAN or something; it would
> have links to other configuration utilities, such as liloconfig and
> modconfig and XF86Config and XF86Setup and ifconfig, etc.
I've gotta say, when I used Redhat that wasn't too bad - maybe you can
get that control panel to work in Debian.
> Also, although there may not be much difference between Deb 1.3 and 2.0 as
> far as documentation needs go, people from the Windows world have been
> trained to think that a new version number automatically makes the older
> version documentation obsolete (don't use a "Dummies for Win95" book to
> solve Win98 issues, etc). Accordingly, when we see docs for Debian 1.3 and
> we're running hamm, we (or at least I do) immediately dismiss it as
> irrelevant (whether this is correct or not, the psychological issue
> remains). Therefore I suggest that the titles of documentation be changed
> as soon as possible to read something like "User's Manual for Debian 1.3
> (with 2.0 additions)", and the 2.0 changes made within the text of the
> documentation.
Maybe you should visit the web page and check out what has changed
between 1.3 and 2.0, then you would know what docs were relevant and what
need to be updated - at least Debian tells you what it has done between
versions - ask M$ - they'd have to tell you that they played volleyball
while Joe Intern touched up the icons.
> If DSELECT is really going away, I wouldn't bother putting much effort into
> it, but if it's sticking around, one thing that would really help is for
> the different categories to be expandable/collapsable, so that instead of
> scrolling through 2000 packages, I could scroll through 20 categories of
> packages and expand only those that I'm interested in looking at further.
> After expanding a category and selecting the packages I want, I could then
> collapse that category to clean up my screen and then go on the the next
> category. (The search function would still look at everything, not just the
> categories.)
If I'm not mistaken, you can give a command ('install' for example) on a
section title and that command will be applied to all members of the
section.
> XWindows: Why can XF86Setup produce a decent graphic screen automatically,
> but X itself must be told by the user what type of monitor and card, etc is
> on the system before a minimal X can be started? I understand these
> settings are needed in order to make full use of your card/monitor, but for
> the newbie, even a lousy looking 640x480 screen that comes up automatically
> would be a major accomplishment. In other words, it's okay to make the user
> struggle for a good video setup, but make it ultra-easy to get a minimal
> setup going.
The minimal setup that XF86Setup uses is the VGA16 server. It is minimal
X - check out the default stuff in /etc/X11 before you run XF86Setup and
that is the minimal X config that is used.
<snipped complaint about work processors>
The problem with the lack of production quality applications is that the
Linux community is a group of VOLUNTEERS who do this for FREE. People
generally don't have the time or money to devote to a volunteer project -
most apps come out of "something was annoying me, so I wrote a little
utility - anyone else interested in checking it out?".
> Games: I've downloaded Squake and DOOM, etc, but haven't yet gotten them to
> run. Why? I don't know. I'm an illiterate newbie from the Windows world.
>
> So, I have no word processor, no spreadsheet, no database, no real games,
> an X system that I don't really understand and can't improve without fear
> of breaking, and limited printing after an hour or two of brain-mashing
> study. I do have telnet and ftp and lynx capability (as long as I'm not
> trying to use my PCMCIA nic on the laptop).
>
> I suspect that by this time next year I'll be a whiz-bang at Debian, and
> will be able to help convert my friends and co-workers to a better OS than
> Microsoft provides. However, this is assuming that I don't give up in
> frustration before then. I won't, but a lot of people would.
I hated it too, now I work at a UNIX (-like OS) shop - the learning curve
is steep for any new environment. I found a good way to learn a little
about my environment was to do a 'ps aux' and look at what services were
running, and just looked at their man pages. I wouldn't be looking for
anything in particular, but stockpiling notes and ideas.
Honestly, I don't think Debian is the best choice for a novice. But then
again, congratulations if you stick with it - you've chosen the road less
travelled and made it through.
Steve Tremblett
QNX Technical Support
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