Re: Lee: Re: smail Solution for Dynamic IP's
On 01 Mar 1998 16:23:02 +1300, Carey Evans wrote:
> kotsya@u.washington.edu (David Stern) writes:
>
> > On Thu, 26 Feb 1998 22:19:37 EST, Lee Bradshaw wrote:
>
> [snip]
>
> > > If I didn't mention this before, I'm not cc'ing you because ipa.net
> > > rejects my "from " lines as spam.
> >
> > I don't understand why a correct header would be rejected. I'd like to
> > see some details for the basis to this claim, because I use the same
> > address style as you and Daniel. Please tell.
>
> What about the envelope sender? sendmail writes this as:
>
> From c.evans@clear.net.nz Sun Mar 1 16:12:31
There's some strong negative remarks about the use of the From (without
the colon) field in the IETF Mailing Headers Draft:
-------------------------------------------------------------------
3.4 Sender and recipient indication
(1) This header field should From (not not standardized
never appear in e-mail being followed by a for use in e-mail
sent, and should thus not appear colon)
in this memo. It is however
included, since people often ask
about it.
This header field is used in the
so-called Unix mailbox format,
also known as Berkely mailbox
format or the MBOX format. This
is a format for storing a set of
messages in a file. A line
beginning with "From " is used to
separate successive messages in
such files.
This header field will thus
appear when you use a text editor
to look at a file in the Unix
mailbox format. Some mailers also
use this format when printing
messages on paper.
The information in this header
field should NOT be used to find
an address to which replies to a
message are to be sent.
(2) Used in Usenet News mail From RFC 976: 2.4 for
transport, to indicate the path or use in Usenet News
through which an article has gone >From
when transferred to a new host. (not followed
by a colon)
Sometimes called "From_" header
field.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
By contrast, the Sender: line is standard (though somewhat vague):
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The person or agent submitting Sender: RFC 822: 4.4.2,
the message to the network, if RFC 1123: 5.2.15-
other than shown by the From: 16, 5.3.7.
header field. Should be
authenticated,
according to RFC 822, but what
kind of authentication is not
clear. Some implementations
expect that the e-mail address
used in this field can be used to
reach the sender, others do not.
See also "X-Sender".
------------------------------------------------------------------------
> or something similar at the top of the message. qmail puts:
>
> Return-Path: <c.evans@clear.net.nz>
>
> as RFC821 and RFC822 (4.3.1, 4.4.3) suggest.
>
> It appears that the Debian list server renames this to
> "X-Envelope-Sender:" before passing the message on, which shows that
> Lee Bradshaw's envelope sender is (or has been)
> "bradshaw@freefall.home.bradshaw", and yours (David Stern's) is
> "kotsya@localhost". At least "localhost" will succeed in some DNS
> lookups. (I had my envelope sender set wrong until recently too.
> It's difficult to notice.) And it *is* forged by spammers.
Some DNS's confirming localhost (127.0.0.1) is probably why I'm able to
post here. Seems wrong, but at the moment I'm glad.
> The Return-Path is where bounced email should go, BTW, which is partly
> why it gets forged. Have either of you received any bounces lately?
I got bounced mailing today:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
'<kotsya@localhost>SIZE=2824' sender address target 'localhost' is not
a valid e-mail domain.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
-
In case anyone is picking up and missed my original post, I'll reask my
questions.
I've read the relevant RFC (and more), but some of the terminology is
prohibitive to my understanding:
---------------------------------------------------------------------
RFC822(STD11) 3.4.6:
o Parentheses ("(" and ")") are used to indicate com-
ments.
o Angle brackets ("<" and ">") are generally used to
indicate the presence of a one machine-usable refer-
ence (e.g., delimiting mailboxes), possibly including
source-routing to the machine.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
What does that bit about "one machine-usable reference (e.g.,
delimiting mailboxes) .. source-routing .." mean?
Most importantly are both "Joe User <juser@isp>" and "juser@isp (Joe
User)" in keeping with standards?
--
David Stern
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://weber.u.washington.edu/~kotsya
kotsya@u.washington.edu
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