Re: Why is debian "more of a learning curve" than Redhat???
On Sun, Jan 25, 1998 at 12:29:47PM -0500, David E. Scott wrote:
> Remco Blaakmeer wrote:
>
> Agreed. <chuckle>, but I'm not so sure the Win95 install "wizard" could
> be characterized as "brain-dead" at least not in comparison to the truly
> brain-dead installations in Win 3.1 from 3d party suppliers especially,
> and sometimes even from 3d party suppliers in Win 95/NT.
>
> I guess there's a good deal of "comfort" level in those newer installers
> that do it all and even warn you and give you the option of replacing or
> keeping a newer DLL it finds already installed. (Similar in concept, I
> suppose, to the dependency checks Debian does?)
But you never now if you are safe to replace or keep it, are you?
The dll's are somewhat similar to linux shared libraries, but in Linux the
shared libraries are more consequently used.
> BTW, the new Mac-based Office 98 from Microsoft offers the most simple
> install - there are no extensions required - all you do to install is
> drag the Office 98 folder from the CD to the Hard Drive and you're
> done!! Now *that's* the way all software *should* be installed. I'd
> *love* to see a fully windows-based linux that allowed installations
> that simple (and reliable). Just Drag and Drop - and yer done.
This won't work, because Linux does run on many platforms under many
displays, under many network configurations and so on.
You have to differ between user installation and system wide integration.
You have to care about shared filesystems and many other things. Windows
installation software can make many assumptions that are not true in an unix
environment.
Therefore it is easier to automate an installation of windows, but it is
also easier to break it ;)
> > Well, Debian is not much different. It's just that first-time users get
> > overwhelmed (sp?) by the huge list of packages dselect shows them. That's
> > something you'll have to get used to until deity is released.
>
> 'deity'? now there's a new one on me. where can i find out more about
> it? i agree, i'm overwhelmed (sp ok) by the huge deselect list of
> packages. Perhaps that's why i found RedHat easier to understand: there
> was a simple check list: if you want such and such a function or program
> feature, just check the box and run, or check the "install all" box and
> just sit back - no dependency errors - it just does the install.
deity will have something like this, but it is currently under development.
The GUI works somewhat, but you can't use it for installation right now.
It is under project/experimental at the ftp server.
> When I tried selecting all in a debian 1.3.1 install, I got tons of
> dependency error messages - making me very unconfidant (sp?) that debian
> "knew" what it was doing.
If you try to install all from a Debian CD, I would be very unconfident that
*you* know what you are doing ;)
You should first just install the standard packages (those are selected
automagically). Just go directly to install, do not select more packages.
Then, if you have this done, install a few packages at the same time. Then
you will more easily understand, why certain packages conflict.
Debian provides somezimes options, that conflict each other. It does not
make sense to want both packages installed, then.
> > The "whereis" command is called "locate". It reads a database that is
> > updated daily if you leave the computer turned on and/or if you have
> > installed the anacron package.
You can also use "which <program>" if you want to know, which version of a
program gets started. If you have the same binary under /usr/bin and
/usr/bin/local, you can check with "which", which of those will be executed
with your current PATH setting (earlier PATH's get searched earlier).
> So THAT's why I was getting the message that the locate database was
> over 8 days old. Later I found about the updatedb command, but it didn't
> seem to work. Thanks for the anacron information, I'll look into that: I
> suspect that allows one to keep the locate/db up to date even if one's
> machine isn't turned on all the time (this Pentium II/233 is so new and
> generates more heat than my previous 486 that I don't trust it yet
> leaving it on 24x7. In addition, the cat would spend all her time on top
> of the monitor <G>)
Yes, exactly. Just install anacron, and you are done. It is quite easy, but
you shouldn't be surprised if the machine is working hard ten minutes after
booting. Then it tries to catch up with all the databases and log files. It
takes probably up to ten minutes.
> > To configure "less" to be more useful, you can set some environment
> > variables. If you like them, place the commands to set them in
> > /etc/profile and they will be set every time you log in. These are the
> > commands:
>
> So *that's* where I stash my environment setups. Thanks again for the
> tips !!
Not exactly. /etc/profile is for *system wide* configuration (every user
will have those variable settings). If you only want to configure your
account, you should use ~/.bash_profile
The "dotted" file is hidden - try "ls -a ~" to see it.
> Interesting thing about the DOS command LIST (actually a shareware
> add-on that's very popular) is that you can say LIST <filename> and you
> get an ascii display and then just do a Cntrl-H to switch the display
> to hex mode. Very convenient, and doesn't require restarting the
> program with a different set of switches.
You will probably see that you never need hex dump of files. I thought I
would need it, too (look at the "od" program), but I soon found out that I
can do everything with my text editor or standard unix tools.
> With all the editors out there, I'd really rather settle on one that I
> can use reliably. Our linux guru seems to prefer EMACS and that was the
> editor that RedHat uses once you get into X-windows - it has a GUI
> that's not too bad, except for the terrible default color scheme :)
Perhaps it was Xemacs. Emacs is a world for itself ;)
> That Linux Man book I have (2nd edition) doesn't document vi, only
> elvis, as noted above.
They shouldn't differ too much (elvis is a vi clone. vi is not available due
to copyright issue ?) Let me not speak too loud, every vi guru will hit me
if he reads this ;)
> What I really need is some sort of Tutorial document. The reference
> documents, like the Linux Man book doesn't fit that bill. And the
> HOW-TO's that I've printed off and read so far assume more knowledge and
> comfort level than I'm at right now.
Look at the LDP project (sunsite.unc.edu/pub/Linux/doc/LDP or so).
they have a user guide.
> Good Point!! I'd sure like to know enough about the system to be able to
> contribute to the effort to make the User Interface much more ergonomic.
You are welcome, but it is a long way 'til you find out that it is not easy
to make things easy ;) (There are a lot of special needs to care about).
Marcus
--
"Rhubarb is no Egyptian god." Debian GNU/Linux finger brinkmd@
Marcus Brinkmann http://www.debian.org master.debian.org
Marcus.Brinkmann@ruhr-uni-bochum.de for public PGP Key
http://homepage.ruhr-uni-bochum.de/Marcus.Brinkmann/ PGP Key ID 36E7CD09
--
TO UNSUBSCRIBE FROM THIS MAILING LIST: e-mail the word "unsubscribe" to
debian-user-request@lists.debian.org .
Trouble? e-mail to templin@bucknell.edu .
Reply to: