Dave's Messages Digest for Today
Dave's messages are now in a digest, so that he is not censored but the
list is not overwhelmed with his messages. Here's today's digest.
Bruce
>From list Sat Aug 23 12:14:49 PDT 1997
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From: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
To: "Clint Adams" <schizo@debian.org>,
"Manoj Srivastava" <srivasta@datasync.com>
Cc: "Debian User Mailing List" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 01:51:36 -0500
Reply-To: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
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Subject: Re: This ugly policy discussion on debian-user.
Status: RO
On 22 Aug 1997 13:47:21 -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>
> Right. There is a reason, being friendly to Debian users who
> happen to also sell CD's. The effect is minor, and technically
> indistinguishable from the previous scheme. The reasons for the
> objection are
Why don't you stop the noise? You just love to play ignorant no matter now many
times I say it..
No one cares about the names insofar as this discussion goes. Making changes to
stable and not changes the rev number just so we can stay at a rev for a longer
time is the argument. Get it through your head.
> a) a misconception that an release engineering error is policy (It is
> not our intention to have released versions be mutable)
It was Bruce's call, and why this has been centering around him.
> b) a misunderstanding about the new numbering scheme. (All releases
> will be distinctly named).
Then why are we at 1.3.1 not when there have been several changes? Bruce saw fit
not to change the rev. It was not a mistake. I've seen his email that says so.
It was the hold the number for CD's....
> c) aesthetic objections to the new scheme?
Like I would have wasted at least 5 hours of my life dealing with all the BS email
just because I don't think it's pretty anymore. : P
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From: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
To: "Britton" <fsblk@aurora.alaska.edu>
Cc: "debian-user@lists.debian.org" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>,
"Paul Serice" <ugs@laci.net>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 06:03:56 -0500
Reply-To: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
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Subject: Re: shielding from liability
Status: O
On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 00:33:03 -0800 (AKDT), Britton wrote:
>
>> Show me the risk of a free venture. Show me the business orginazation, before
>> Debian Inc. was formed. Show me the money! There was none before, and that
was
>> why what you just quoted would never have applied to the Debian maintainers.
>> They had no collective assests!
>
>Unfortunately, their private assets would be vulnerable, and this is the
>issue.
: P
>If you own a home, then you may be worth going after. Otherwise you are
>right, no one will bother to bother you.
>
>> Now it's arguable they do. **NOW** it's an enterprise. NOW they have liabity
>> extended to all of them.
>
>What you are saying may seem logical to you, but it simply isn't how
>things work. I recently began building some apartments, and the first
>thing I did was form a type S corporation. Without it, if someone falls
>in the excavation on my property and breaks their neck, they could sue me
>for everything I own and win. The corporation doesn't remove the threat
>of litigation, it just insulates me and my other assets. The corporation
>(as the entity that owns the land) could easily be sued out of existance,
>but it wouldn't be worth the prosecutors time. If for example you own
>shares in MS, and MS gets sued for recycling Apple stuff with insufficient
>smelting, Apple will not be able to knock on your door and want your
>house. It is exactly the same with a type S corp., shares are issued and
>shareholders are protected. This arrangement is perfectly legitimate and
>is THE accepted way for small operators to protect themselves and their
>families.
>
>It is the same here also. Debian, Inc. can assume responsibility for the
>software it organizes and distributes, and thereby protect the people who
>contribute. To leave lots of money lying around in SPI or whatever it's
>called would be foolish, but otherwise incorporating is a very wise idea.
Has anyone been reading my posts before they respond to them?
The reason I've been repetative is because people keep saying the samthing over
and over again.
No, any responcibilty that can be assumed *right now* is very limited, and I've
listed several indisputable reasons why over at least 10 different posts.
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>From list Sat Aug 23 12:14:50 PDT 1997
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(Debian Smail-3.2 1996-Jul-4 #2); Sat, 23 Aug 1997 13:41:36 -0400 (EDT)
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From: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
To: "Syrus Nemat-Nasser" <syrus@ucsd.edu>,
"Tim Sailer" <sailer@sun10.sep.bnl.gov>
Cc: "debian-user@lists.debian.org" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 13:43:27 -0500
Reply-To: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
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Subject: Re: Dave Cinege and Paul Wade
Status: O
On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:09:39 -0400 (EDT), Tim Sailer wrote:
>In your email to me, Syrus Nemat-Nasser, you wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 22 Aug 1997, Bruce Perens wrote:
>>
>> [snip]
>> > As you can see, Dave hasn't removed his sorry excuse for dialog from
>> > debian-user. What do you suggest I do, guys?
>>
>> I suggest that you ask Pete Templin to remove Dave from the debian-user
>> mailing list.
>
>I concur.
I ask that Tim Sailer be removed from the list. He has been abusive towards people,
has furthered repetative 'flame' discussions, and has asked for people to be
dismissed from the list solely based on his disagreement with him.
His continuing attitude has shown him to be unworthy of access to a public list, and
his contiued involvment will lead to a more retrictive enviroment not indicative of a
free software project.
I also ask that Syrus Nemat-Nasser be removed from the list. The fact that he has
said things in argeemnet with Tim Sailor proves that he is incapable of dealing with
people in an abstract way, in which he does not have control over what they say
and do. This is also detrimental to the futherment of a free and open software
project. I also don't like the way his name looks, and for that reason alone he should
be banned for life.
If possible, I would would request that the aformentioned persons be incinerated so
there is no possible chance of them causing us problems again. If this is the
decision, I would be willing to volunter for the Debian Gestopo Hit Squad project. I
have ammunition that I would be able to donate.
That you for your kind consideration in this matter.
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>From list Sat Aug 23 12:14:50 PDT 1997
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From: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
To: "Tim Sailer" <sailer@sun10.sep.bnl.gov>
Cc: "debian-policy@lists.debian.org" <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>,
"debian-user@lists.debian.org" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 14:05:03 -0500
Reply-To: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
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Subject: Re: shielding from liability
Status: O
On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:05:13 -0400 (EDT), Tim Sailer wrote:
>In your email to me, Dave Cinege, you wrote:
>> Show me the risk of a free venture. Show me the business orginazation, b=
>> efore
>> Debian Inc. was formed. Show me the money! There was none before, and th=
>> at was
>> why what you just quoted would never have applied to the Debian maintain=
>> ers.
>> They had no collective assests!
>
>It's very convenient that you just didn't see:
>
>b : a systematic purposeful activity
Then quote me case law. These things are always to be narrowly construed to
entail commercial entities, and not the private person in their daily affairs.
If you or Bruce or someone responcible for Debian Inc. can not come up with
anything conclusive, they you must admit that the creation of the corpoartion was
done blindly, and without a solid knowledge of the implications towards the
developers.
>"The Debian Project" was around long before SPI.
But a bunch of guys just calling something The Debian Project does not make it a
legal entity, nor form an official association between them all.
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From: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
To: "Tim Sailer" <sailer@sun10.sep.bnl.gov>
Cc: "debian-policy@lists.debian.org" <debian-policy@lists.debian.org>,
"debian-user@lists.debian.org" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 14:05:03 -0500
Reply-To: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
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Subject: Re: shielding from liability
Status: O
On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 11:05:13 -0400 (EDT), Tim Sailer wrote:
>In your email to me, Dave Cinege, you wrote:
>> Show me the risk of a free venture. Show me the business orginazation, b=
>> efore
>> Debian Inc. was formed. Show me the money! There was none before, and th=
>> at was
>> why what you just quoted would never have applied to the Debian maintain=
>> ers.
>> They had no collective assests!
>
>It's very convenient that you just didn't see:
>
>b : a systematic purposeful activity
Then quote me case law. These things are always to be narrowly construed to
entail commercial entities, and not the private person in their daily affairs.
If you or Bruce or someone responcible for Debian Inc. can not come up with
anything conclusive, they you must admit that the creation of the corpoartion was
done blindly, and without a solid knowledge of the implications towards the
developers.
>"The Debian Project" was around long before SPI.
But a bunch of guys just calling something The Debian Project does not make it a
legal entity, nor form an official association between them all.
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>From list Sat Aug 23 12:14:50 PDT 1997
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From: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
To: "Tim Sailer" <sailer@sun10.sep.bnl.gov>
Cc: "debian-user@lists.debian.org" <debian-user@lists.debian.org>
Date: Sat, 23 Aug 97 14:20:23 -0500
Reply-To: "Dave Cinege" <dcinege@psychosis.com>
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Subject: Re: Dave Cinege and Paul Wade
Status: O
On Sat, 23 Aug 1997 14:02:15 -0400 (EDT), Tim Sailer wrote:
>> I ask that Tim Sailer be removed from the list. He has been abusive towards
people,
>> has furthered repetative 'flame' discussions, and has asked for people to be
>> dismissed from the list solely based on his disagreement with him.
>
>That is a blatant lie, but just to pacify your 12 yrs old mentality
>(I can't believe you actually own a business), I am *voluntarily*
>removing myself from this list. Although I have only seen *1* helpful
>message from you ever on this list, you can pick up *my* slack.
Tim's abusive nature has been escalating even further. I ask that if in fact he does
not remove himself from the list, that he be tracked down and drawn and quartered
immediatly.
If this is the general consencious, then I would like to volunteer for the Debian
Draconian Punishmet project. I have rope and large cutting utensals that I am willing
to donate.
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--
Can you get your operating system fixed when you need it?
Linux - the supportable operating system. http://www.debian.org/support.html
Bruce Perens K6BP bruce@debian.org 510-215-3502
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