Re: [COMMITTED] Remove obsolete Solaris 11.3 support
On Fri, May 10, 2024 at 10:54 AM John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
<glaubitz@physik.fu-berlin.de> wrote:
>
> Hello Rainer,
>
> On Fri, 2024-05-10 at 10:20 +0200, Rainer Orth wrote:
> > > > Support for Solaris 11.3 had already been obsoleted in GCC 13. However,
> > > > since the only Solaris system in the cfarm was running 11.3, I've kept
> > > > it in tree until now when both Solaris 11.4/SPARC and x86 systems have
> > > > been added.
> > > >
> > > > This patch actually removes the Solaris 11.3 support.
> > >
> > > I'm not sure I like this change since Solaris 11.3 is the last version of
> > > Solaris supported by a large number of SPARC systems.
> > >
> > > Oracle unfortunately raised the hardware baseline with Solaris 11.4 such
> > > that every system older than the SPARC T4 is no longer supported by 11.4
> > > while 11.3 still runs perfectly fine on these machines.
> >
> > I wonder why you didn't raise your concerns 1 1/2 years ago when I
> > announced the obsoletion of Solaris 11.3 support?
>
> Because I wasn't subscribed to gcc-patches and I'm also only subscribed now
> without receiving messages due to the large message volume on this list.
https://gcc.gnu.org/gcc-13/changes.html
> The problem with announcements on developer mailing lists is usually that they
> usually don't reach any users. I was made aware of this change only when I
> checked about the recent changes to GCC Git.
Where do you expect such announcement then?
Richard.
> > > While Oracle does no longer provide feature updates to Solaris 11.3, there
> > > is still LTSS security support so that users still receive security updates
> > > so that their systems are continued to be protected against vulnerabilities.
> >
> > The Solaris 11.3 ESUs (Extended Support Updates) are available at a
> > premium only, and just contain the bare minimum of security updates,
> > often 6 to 9 month in between.
>
> That's not an argument for throwing away hardware that still works perfectly
> fine and that still has some users.
>
> > > I think Solaris 11.3 support should be kept since the resulting code removal
> > > is not that large that it would justify dropping support for such a large
> > > userbase.
> >
> > Do you have any indication on the size of the userbase? I seriously
> > doubt it's large beyond some hobbyists that keep the old hardware
> > running.
>
> I don't have the exact numbers, no. But I know there are many users out there
> with pre-11.4 hardware that they still use. As you may know, there are no
> 11.4 SPARC desktop systems and most 11.4-capable hardware is usually very
> expensive.
>
> > You also seem to forget that my GCC (and LLVM) Solaris support work is
> > purely voluntary, done in my spare time.
>
> Not sure what makes you think so. I'm perfectly aware of the fact that lots of
> people do this work in their spare time as this applies to me as well.
>
> I'm not getting paid for my Debian work, my kernel maintenance and all the other
> stuff that I'm doing either. That doesn't mean users are not allowed to ask me
> questions or send me comments about my work.
>
> > Keeping Solaris 11.3 support working would be much more than restoring
> > the removal patch:
> >
> > * For each and every of my Solaris patches, I'd have to investigate if
> > it works on 11.3 or needs adjustments and workarounds.
> >
> > * I'd also need to regularly test the result to keep things working.
> >
> > I honestly don't have the time or the energy to do this, nor the
> > hardware required for testing Besides, I have too much on my plate
> > already, and rather spend it on more beneficial work.
>
> Does Solaris support in GCC really change that often that the necessary tests
> cannot be run by volunteers? I'd be happy to test changes for Solaris 11.3
> which can be installed inside an LDOM.
>
> > Above all, I always wonder why people insist on running ancient hardware
> > with an almost-unsupported OS, but require a bleeding edge version of
> > GCC. What's wrong with continuing to use GCC 13 (or even 14, although I
> > haven't tested that on Solaris 11.3) instead?
>
> You could also ask why people use operating systems other than Linux and
> architectures other than x86_64. I don't think you will get a satisfactory
> answer to that question.
>
> > > Removing Solaris 11.3 support might make sense in the future when SPARC
> > > support in Illumos has matured enough that people can switch over their
> > > machines.
> >
> > As has been noted, SPARC is on its way out for Illumos.
>
> Which makes my point to keep Solaris 11.3 support even more valid.
>
> Adrian
>
> --
> .''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
> : :' : Debian Developer
> `. `' Physicist
> `- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
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