On Tue, 2003-03-11 at 09:51, Ted Parvu wrote: > Hello Debian Community! > [***SNIP!!!***] > I would now like to demonstrate consensus in action. I have heard and > respect the voices of the community that cry, "off topic!". I ask that > you hear and respect the voices of the community who want to discuss > these issues. I propose that we label the subjects of these > non-traditional threads with prefix of "OT:". This will allow the > members of the community who do not wish to participate to easily filter > these conversations out. "OT" can stand for "off topic", "on topic", > "off traditional", or whatever the reader wishes it to mean. > > I am not a leader. People will choose to do this or they will not. > Even if people adopt this process, if at some point in the future it > stops making sense, people will stop using it. It is that simple. > > We will self organize based upon our self interests. Our levels of > consensus on any given issue will vary from agreement, to > non-participation, to active opposition. That is how it works. You are > always free to leave the community. If you decide you no longer like > Debian, then move to Red Hat or whatever. I am an ardent believer and supporter of open, intelligent, informed, mutually respectful discussion in the pursuit of collective understanding and hopefully acceptance of decisions made even amongst those that cannot agree with the decision. In a free environment respecting freedom of expression, such is not only a right, but a necessity in the functioning of the society. That said, people also have a freedom, in that context, to not be required to be involved in any particular discussion of their choosing, and to not have their position (or lack thereof) on one topic affect how they are perceived on other topics. Mailing lists, discussion fora and Usenet newsgroups are wonderous tools to permit the gathering of people to share ideas, views, prejudices and fears in a largely unmanaged and unscripted environment. They permit people of similar interests to gather and pursue discussions of a selected topic for that group. That functionality breaks down very quickly, however, when individuals lose respect for the topic set for the specific area qv. Bob Allisat. I dealt with Bob Allisat. Many people dealt with Bob Allisat. He developed a belief that his views on a limited topic were appropriate to any *.general newsgroup he could find on Usenet, even though they related to only one particular city (Toronto). In that these were *.general groups, he may have had a bit of reason to his argument, except that they were <geographic area>.general groups, and his posting from "away" was off-topic. You can read about his illustrious non-contribution to the Internet at: http://www.killfile.org/dungeon/why/allisat.html The breadth of mailing lists, discussion fora and Usenet newsgroups is very, very large, and always easily expanded. If a topic arises that warrants or fosters discussion, such lists can be easily launched and maintained. To Ted and a handful of others, the perceptions of the matters involving Iraq at this point in time are considered a topic warranting such discussion, particularly in the context of "Debian Users concerned about the relations between Iraq and the United States" thread. However, since that thread left the context of Carnivore (or whatever else the proponents wish to name it at this time,) it has been outside the topic area of this mailing list - as evidenced by the persistence of the [OT] flag in the subject line. Several individuals may wish to discuss this at length. Good - that is healthy and hopefully constructive. Just please use one of the many existing fora on which this is ON-TOPIC and let this mailing list address the matters that are ON-TOPIC for it. Don't exercise an "arrogance" that it is okay to discuss anything off-topic in any list because certain people there *may* wish to and you have extended the courtesy of putting [OT] in the subject line. On that logic, others would be easily justified in launching threads on: 1) The fragrance of flatulence on various diets 2) What selections did Nero play as Rome burned 3) Napoleon or Alexander - which was the greater military leader 4) This <naked female "model" picture> or <another naked female "model" picture> - which one would likely be a better security risk while using a Debian system? 5) Spam messages prefaced by [OT] in the subject line. I use this list, as do most all that subscribe for it, for the purpose of studying and discussing matters of the security configuration of systems built with Debian packages, and such points of "good practice" to maintain such security. If I chose to partake in discussions about the advisability and potential effects of certain political matters proposed by one entity or another, I would discuss them in a forum devoted to that topic amongst those interested in that matter and taking part in that forum because of that interest. In fact, I do discuss such topics with newspaper columnists, and have found points I've raised be taken and expanded upon in their columns (so I am not asking that this thread move out of total disinterest in the subject, but out of the interest in the effective functioning of this forum for *its* purpose.) -- Mark L. Kahnt, FLMI/M, ALHC, HIA, AIAA, ACS, MHP ML Kahnt New Markets Consulting Tel: (613) 531-8684 / (613) 539-0935 Email: kahnt@hosehead.dyndns.org
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