Re: Bug#361418: Debian menu and the Apps/Science section
On Sun, May 14, 2006 at 11:42:24PM +0200, Thomas Walter wrote:
> Hello,
>
> On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 22:26, Daniel Leidert wrote:
> > Am Sonntag, den 14.05.2006, 21:55 +0200 schrieb Thomas Walter:
> > > On Sun, 2006-05-14 at 20:52, Daniel Leidert wrote:
> >
> > [..]
> > > > > In general, my understanding of "Science" is in the sense of research
> > > > > and not education.
> > > >
> > > > I do not agree. Education also means science. It doesn't just mean
> > > > "teaching". For me, there is no difference between Science and
> > > > Education. Where is the difference IYO?
> > > >
> > >
> > > Exactly this is the key:
> > >
> > > Education: teaching
> > > you are teached/trained to be able to do something
> > > or to teach others
> > > improve individual wisdom/skills.
> > >
> > > Science: research
> > > you apply the above to find something new.
> > > improve the global pool of wisdom.
> >
> > I know that opinion of course. But "education" with the meaning of
> > "higher education" isn't that far away from "science". I know, people
> > have different opinions here. Just a few questions:
> >
> > Where do you make the difference between a scientific and an educational
> > software product? Let's say: What is a chemical structures editor? What
> > is a (software realized) calculator with scientific functions (like
> > those who are mostly used in education)?
> >
>
> As far as I understood the basic rules to tag applications,
> the answer is not a "one ot the other" decision.
> The chemical structureditor can be used for both purposes.
> Thus add the application in 2 entries of the tree.
>
> A "calculator" is a common tool used in nearly all categories.
> Such a global tool covers a few percent from lots of categories.
> Thus, this a candidate to go into a section like
> Science
> Common or Global or Misc
> or
> Science
> Math
> Calculator
> and
> Education
> Math
> Calculator
>
>
> compared with a tool like axiom, which would go in "Science -> Math"
> only.
>
> Due to my opinion, that when doing Science Research you know the basics
> where in Teaching/Education you have more applications which tell you
> about the basics.
> The latter is like:
> how to do integration or differentiation, waht are Newton's rules in
> gravity
> the first is like:
> when I apply several of the basic rules to these measurements under
> given constraints
> then one can proof the existance of a sub-particle for a few nano
> seconds in nuclear physics.
>
> > Just think about, that you _must_ define the answer for at least the
> > first question if you make a difference in Debian's menu between
> > education and science. I'm really not happy with dividing between them,
> > because IMHO there is no clear difference.
> >
>
> I know that may be tricky and you are right.
> That's why I try to separate by learning/teaching already known basics
> :== Education and applying that find (new) rules or to improve exising
> rules :== Science/Research by top-down classification going from most
> global/abstract to more specific/specialised.
>
> For example. lots of math aplications one can use in physics, chemistry,
> bio, astronomy, ... too as compuatation is very common. The tricky
> point may be to find an abstraction.
> An application knowing all the keppler rules where you can focus on high
> level astronomical things would be category Astronomy. But you can use
> a programmable common language and add lots of functions as addional
> modules. Without the modules is would be Math.
>
My suggestion, made elsewhere on this thread, to pattern the categories
after the departments of several, or many, major universities, really
handles this issue: there departments of education in enough major
universities to make the cut for inclusion as a category. A quick look
at the web sites of these departments will give a good idea of what
'belongs' in the education category.
--
Paul E Condon
pecondon@mesanetworks.net
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