Bug#960265: s390x install Debootstrap warning: Failure while configuring base packages. s390-tools depends on perl:any.
On Wed, Jun 17, 2020 at 12:20:46PM +0200, Piotr Kolasiński wrote:
> On Tue, Jun 16, 2020 at 11:24:11AM +0300, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>...
> > s390x is the only headless release architecture.
> > This was a real pain for the Debian GNOME maintainers already before
> > the last release, without any support from s390x porters on fixing
> > this issue.[1]
> I don't agree. Fact, that s390x doesn't have direct display doesn't mean
> that graphical tools are not used.
>...
Fact is that the s390x port is different from all other ports in Debian.
And it is causing extra work to support such a port.
Which is an even bigger problem when there are no porters doing this work.
>...
> About "s390x hardware and the Linux kernel" - I'm just only advanced user
> (I hope), but as I know - the kernel support in this area is mostly done
> by IBM. Does someone can tell me how many changes have to be done in Debian
> and what kind for the kernel? Does we really need many people in this
> area?
>...
Two porters are the minimum requirement for release architectures.
Just yesterday there was a question from a Debian maintainer sent to the
s390 list about an s390x-only problem in a package[1]:
Any of you have any idea why the threads on s390x behave differently
than all the other architectures?
I do not know whether there is anything special about threading on s390x
compared to other Linux architectures, but porters are expected to know.
If there is a problem like for example kernel crashes with the Debian
kernel on a Debian machine like a buildd for a release architecture,
someone has to debug the problem swiftly.
Debian does not have a service agreement with IBM for maintaining the
Debian kernel on s390x, it is the duty of the s390x porters to maintain
the Debian kernel and debug problems in the Debian kernel.
>...
> > A port like s390x with unique problems is only sustainable when several
> > people with good knowledge of Debian, s390x hardware and the Linux
> > kernel have a long-term commitment of swiftly supporting everyone in
> > Debian with s390x problems.
> Good point - the question is why there is not so many people with "good
> knowledge of Debian" in Mainframe environment?
>...
Debian is a volunteer project.
s390x is a business-to-business affair.
Other ports have a community of people who have a Raspberry Pi or
an old hppa workstation at home.
Nonne has an old mainframe at home for keeping Debian running on it
as a hobby.
>...
> How many of potential
> mainframe users know that Debian supports s390x architecture? If not
> many - why?
>...
How many companies are buying a mainframe without any software support
contracts with IBM or other companies?
With that kind of financial investment you usually want a Linux
distribution that is supported by IBM, and buy support for that
distribution from the company behind the distribution.
>...
> > IMHO it would be best if s390x would become a non-release architecture
> > in ports.
> My previous message was sent because I worry, that if this architecture
> will become not-release, after short time disappear
A Debian port disappears when there are not enough porters with the
necessary skills keeping it working.
For non-release architectures one dedicated person is enough.
> (and some people abandon it or switch to Ubuntu
>...
What people are you talking about?
Philipp made a good point that the Debian s390x port might already have
no users at all left.
> Piotr
cu
Adrian
[1] https://lists.debian.org/debian-s390/2020/06/msg00015.html
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