Hi Simon, On Mon, Aug 17, 2015 at 01:46:16PM +0100, Simon McVittie wrote: > I notice that Ubuntu has gone ahead with a lot of library renames. Did > the Ubuntu developers doing these uploads test the results, or did you > just "upload and hope"? One reason I have held back from doing more NMUs > is that for the majority of transitioning packages, I have no idea how > to smoke-test the results, and I'm not happy with putting my signature > on a package that I haven't tested. However, if we're going for a lower > standard of "successfully rebuilding the package and some random rdeps > is enough testing", then there are quite a lot of NMUs that can be done. Yes, this has been the standard in Ubuntu. First, because the presence of a C++ ABI change in a new version of the compiler does not imply an increased risk of wrong code compilation, and we normally assume (in both Debian and Ubuntu) that rebuilding without making other changes is safe; and second because if there's anything *beyond* buildability of reverse-dependencies that warrants testing as part of no-change rebuilds, the right way to express that is by declaration of autopkgtests. So a number of these library packages have gotten suitable smoke testing by way of autopkgtests (indeed, publishing these libraries to wily involved bypassing a number of buggy autopkgtests on reverse dependencies), and many others did not but are assumed to be ok unless someone reports otherwise. > If we wait for a maintainer who knows the relevant package (who is > likely on holiday and/or MIA in many cases) to inspect each of the > packages involved, then I don't think anything vaguely C++-related is > going to migrate for weeks, possibly months. That's a long time for > developers without the appropriate C++ or specific-library knowledge to > avoid touching unstable and hope security bug fixes get to them via t-p-u. Right. I certainly wouldn't recommend that Debian as a whole wait on individual maintainers to make these decisions. Indeed, in Ubuntu we went ahead and pushed "conservative" transitions - namely, assuming that everything needed to be renamed - with the rationale that in cases where we find out that the transition was not needed *and* someone in Debian cares enough to prevent having a transition, we can roll back the transition with some combination of Provides: and dummy packages. So the cost of waiting for careful evaluation of each package is high (weeks or months spent blocking testing), and the cost of having to revert a transition is low (revert the library name, throw in some Provides:, and carry on). > Having done more rebuilds in Ubuntu, it would be great if you could > publish a complete list of the transitions you believe to be necessary, > including those that are not ready to be uploaded until their > dependencies have transitioned, so we can get an idea of the size of the > problem. Here's the count of source packages in Ubuntu wily that produce binary packages ending in 'v5', which is probably a good approximation: $ grep-dctrl -n -sSource:Package -FPackage -r 'v5$' /var/lib/apt/lists/archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_wily*Packages | sort -u | wc -l 333 $ Full list attached. Cheers, -- Steve Langasek Give me a lever long enough and a Free OS Debian Developer to set it on, and I can move the world. Ubuntu Developer http://www.debian.org/ slangasek@ubuntu.com vorlon@debian.org
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