Re: PyCon 2013 -- tentative title/abstract/outline -- feedback plz
Hi Nicolas,
Thanks for the feedback -- valid concerns and besides first 3 points
indeed you give the answers I am usually give people: that is why we
provide NeuroDebian VM which is used by quite a few users who either
have admin access on their boxes or just pursuade IT personnel to do
just 1 custom installation for them -- VirtualBox ;-) As for
chroot'ing -- it is underused/under-marketed solution IMHO ATM although
I have been using it myself quite a bit and even at times advocating it
as a workaround for some deployment problems [1]. Also I haven't
played with fakechroot yet, which if possible to perfect, could serve as
an ultimate resolution for people without admin access.
As for the developers/production: first indeed VM still might be a
better choice, second -- we still provide all the Pythonic tools for
virtualization/isolation, and after all I decided to position the
talk more toward users so I hope not to fall into this debate ;)
[1] http://neuro.debian.net/blog/2011/2011-12-12_schroot_fslview.html
> PS: by the way, would anyone know of a way to use chroot or something
> similar to allow any user to have any number of virtual environments
> that use apt-get to install stuff and fall-back to the system if
> something is not installed in the virtualenv ?
what is your use case? chrootting does allow 'arbitrary' number of
virtual environments but I am not sure what kind of fall-back you need.
Usually I used chroots in the opposite way, but supplementing main
system with tools ran in chroots (see [1] above ;) )
Cheers
On Tue, 02 Oct 2012, Nicolas Chauvat wrote:
> Hi Yaroslav,
> On Wed, Sep 26, 2012 at 11:40:58AM -0400, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote:
> > To not be too ambitious and to not invest too much time I have decided to
> > submit only a talk. Here follows a perspective title, abstract and some
> > notes/outline which will not be a part of submission. I would really
> > appreciate (and of cause would acknowledge in the slides) any feedback, ideas,
> > comments, etc.
> I suggest you would also try to describe the differences between The
> Complete Python Distribution On Debian and the others ways there are
> to install Python packages.
> When I say "I do not need all this easy_install, pip, virtualenv,
> distribute/packaging, buildout, /etc/ for I have Debian!", I am
> usually told:
> - but we have to work on Windows
> - but we are not root on the computer we are using and can't run apt-get
> - but I want a newer version of X than the one included in Debian
> - but I am not doing deployment/production and for development I need the
> latest versions of these modules because this component I rely on
> says so
> - I am preparing things for production, so I need everything to be
> reproducible independently of the underlying system
> - etc.
> I think being prepared to answer these questions and maybe address
> some of these issues directly in your slides would help make clear
> what Debian is a good solution for.
> Possible answers are:
> - windows: if it hurts, stop doing it and install virtualbox :p
> - not root: try a virtual machine (or maybe a variant of chroot?)
> - newer: are you ready to handle all the compatibility/dependency
> problems on your own ?
> - dev: packaging python modules is easier than getting a full
> distribution to work right, take a look at the
> GSoC project that packages PyPI/*, your new-and-shiny stuff is
> probably there
> - prod: you want a chroot or a virtual machine.
> - etc.
> Hope this helps,
> PS: by the way, would anyone know of a way to use chroot or something
> similar to allow any user to have any number of virtual environments
> that use apt-get to install stuff and fall-back to the system if
> something is not installed in the virtualenv ?
--
Yaroslav O. Halchenko
Postdoctoral Fellow, Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences
Dartmouth College, 419 Moore Hall, Hinman Box 6207, Hanover, NH 03755
Phone: +1 (603) 646-9834 Fax: +1 (603) 646-1419
WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik
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