On Thu, Sep 27, 2012 at 08:51:37AM -0400, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote: > not a single comment... bad... I guess I need to work on the text > more if even hardcore Debian people do not feel 'moved' ;-) Well, i'll give my 2c as a pythonista and a Debian-folk > > On Wed, 26 Sep 2012, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote: > > > To not be too ambitious and to not invest too much time I have decided to > > submit only a talk. Here follows a perspective title, abstract and some > > notes/outline which will not be a part of submission. I would really > > appreciate (and of cause would acknowledge in the slides) any feedback, ideas, > > comments, etc. > > > [originally in emacs org-mode] > > > * Title > > > Debian -- (rich) Python distribution for the bare metal > > > Alternatives: > > The universal Python distribution or build your own stack > > Debian & Python -- a happy couple with a character > > Propelling Python to the masses with the universal OS > > > * Abstract > > > Through the years Python community strives to distill the ultimate > > Python distribution utilities. Meanwhile, to overcome the problems of > > the core Python and 3rd party FOSS Python projects distribution, > > various free and commercial distribution bundles of Python appeared. > > They made Python, as an environment with a pre-selected set of Python > > modules, conveniently available (primarily) on proprietary systems. > > What is rarely known is that for decades Python has been a part of the > > largest in the world software distribution platform: Debian project > > delivers a complete operating system with thousands of FOSS projects > > making them available on 11 hardware architectures and 3 different > > kernels (Linux, HURD, kFreeBSD). In the Linux world, Debian is known > > as the most popular base distribution due its openness, ease of use, > > versatility, and stability. By delivering a well integrated and > > tested versatile OS, with a plethora of core libraries necessary for > > nearly any field of endeavor, it became an ideal base for the > > **complete** Python distribution. Majority of Python projects are > > either already packaged for Debian or provide 1-2 lines instructions > > on how to install necessary dependencies and build/install the product > > on Debian-based systems. Recent advances in hardware virtualization > > support followed in tandem with the explosion of cloud solutions, made > > Debian systems popular not only among Linux "fan-boys" but for > > various, especially scientific and community-driven, deployments. The > > ease with which thousands of Python-based FOSS became installable and > > maintainable made Debian the Python distribution with "**all** > > batteries included". > > > In this talk I would like to briefly present the history of Python in > > Debian (which can be traced to nineties with Python 1.4) and outline > > benefits Debian provides for Python users and developers, keeping in > > mind upcoming stable Debian release (wheezy). To familiarize > > listeners with Python-in-Debian ecosystem I will then overview core > > package naming, versioning, and modularization conventions in Debian, I can see this becoming a flamefest. Most "hardcore" pythonistas (and the types to be at PyCon) refuse to allow apt to install libs globally, and use virtualenv(wrapper) to isolate deps for a few reasons -- the big ones being: - more "up to date" - isolates dependency hell which (frankly) apt-get / Debian stable can't really address. Sometimes Python packages in sid are out of date as well. People don't care about API stability or anything like that, so I think you might have to try to frame this in a way that doesn't provoke a virtualenv-vs-apt battle -- because, frankly, neither side will win and it'll just become a bit murky. I'd be happy to help you prepare / do more interactive work with folks at PyCon (I should likely be there) :) > > and briefly present the "Debian packaging" helper tools, including > > recent GSOC project aiming to provide automatic packaging of the > > packages on PyPI. To facilitate the synergy between Python and Debian > > communities, I will accent on common sense practices (following PEPs, > > clean and exhaustive legal terms, CI, etc.) which would make any > > Debian packaging and maintainership more efficient. I am planing to > > conclude by presenting few easy ways on how to start using Debian. > > > As the outcome of the talk, I expect listeners to become more familiar > > with the Debian project's standards and principles, become aware of > > integration aspects involved in delivering such plethora of Python > > FOSS solutions, and be intrigued enough to try Debian on their systems > > or in the cloud. > > > > Just NOTES: > > > * Python-in-Debian History > > ** Upstream: Python 1.0 - January 1994, Python 1.5 - December 31, 1997 > > ** debian-python ML https://lists.debian.org/debian-python/1998/08/msg00000.html > > > To: debian-python@lists.debian.org > > Cc: hoffleit@mathi.uni-heidelberg.DE, lorenzo@argon.roma2.infn.it > > Subject: Welcome to debian-python > > From: Hanno Wagner <wagner@fitug.de> > > Date: Fri, 7 Aug 1998 09:27:05 +0200 > > Message-id: <19980807092705.J25037@beuel.rhein.de> > > Reply-to: Hanno Wagner <wagner@fitug.de> > > > Good morning gentlemen, > > > this is the initial posting for debian-python, the > > mailinglist is running now. > > > Here is the description for the mailinglist: > > > debian-python@lists.debian.org > > > Description : Discussion of issues related to Python on Debian > > systems with an stress on packaging standards. > > Therefore relevant for maintainers of Python related > > packages. > > Moderated : no > > Subscription: open > > > > > Have a nice start, > > > Ciao, Hanno, one of listmaster@lists.debian.org > > -- > > | Hanno Wagner | Member of the HTML Writers Guild | Rince@IRC | > > | Eine gewerbliche Nutzung meiner Email-Adressen ist nicht gestattet! | > > | 74 a3 53 cc 0b 19 - we did it! | Generation @ | > > > #Fachbegriffe der Informatik einfach erklaert, Teil 69: > > #"It is essential that implementations by different vendors interoperate." > > # == "Unsere proprietaeren Basteleien dokumentieren wir gar nicht erst." > > # (Sven Tuerpe) > > ** python2 changelog (Python 2.0 was released on 16 October 2000) > > python2 (2.0-1) unstable; urgency=low > > > * New upstream version. Initial release for python2. > > > -- Gregor Hoffleit <flight@debian.org> Mon, 11 Dec 2000 22:39:46 +0100 > > * For the "users" > > very convenient environment to install, update, remove. > > ** Statistics on the covered packages > > XXX Python modules/extensions (tagcloud?) > > XXX Python bindings for C/C++ libraries > > *** By domains > > web-frameworks: gluon, web2py, turbogeats, django, pyjamas... > > scientific Python: numpy, scipy, ... > > * For the "developers" > > ** Rich development environment > > multiple-supported versions -- smooth-ed migration > > IDEs: > > python*-dbg > > virtualenv > > > ** Q: How do I keep my finger on the beat of my baby in Debian? > > Subscribe to announcements on http://packages.qa.debian.org > > > ** Q: How popular am I? > > popcon.debian.org > > Show numpy proliferation on Debian deployments > > * (?) Python-in-core-Debian > > Which core Debian tools are Python-based > > - reportbug > > - git-buildpackage > > * Python-in-Debian internals > > - In 99% it is not 'Bureaucracy' -- it is evolving open standards ;) > > Python modules policy is not carved in stone (i.e. not part of the > > official main Debian policy) > > > - Binary packages naming/modularization conventions or > > "WTF they have done with my module..." > > - python-* -- Python modules/extensions > > - might be split into python-X arch:all and python-core/-lib/-bin > > - might be complemented with > > -dbg -- package (built against python-dbg) > > -doc -- documentation > > - python*-numpy-a[bp]i* packages > > - How package is built > > - source vs binary package > > - dh + dh_python2 (python-central/python-support -- deprecated) > > - pkg build time testing > > TODO: stats -- how many, test in-place, test against > > built/installed > > - no build-time testing for arch:all packages (built ones/uploaded + > > QA rebuilds) > > - helpers: > > - stdeb -- http://github.com/astraw/stdeb (python-stdeb package) > > - GSOC 2012 -- pypi2deb -- PyPI to Debian converter > > https://gitorious.org/pypi2deb > > - Debian versioning > > - Python2/3 Debian peculiarities > > - TODO > > * What do we ask developers about > > - standard deployment schemes (setup.py install) > > - follow PEPs: > > - PEP XXX -- versioning > > implemented only in python3, but at least rely on > > distutils.version.LooseVersion > > - is there PEP on testing, Barry? > > - clean(er) separation of code and data > > - clear and exhaustive LICENSE/COPYRIGHTs > > - unittests > > - tag ones requiring network access or better -- provide fixtures > > - exercise against minimal supported versions > > (of Python itself, and 3rd party libraries) > > * How to get started with Debian > > - install (dual-boot, ...) > > - other Linuxes: chroot - lightweight virtualization (debootstrap, schroot) > > - VM, e.g. http://neuro.debian.net/vm.html > > - cloud > > > > > > On Fri, 21 Sep 2012, Yaroslav Halchenko wrote: > > > > Hi everyone, > > > > Since the deadline for the submission of talks/tutorials for the PyCon > > > 2013 is approaching (28th of Sep) I thought to check if anyone from the > > > 'team' will be attending (Barry?) and may be someone already is > > > planing to give a talk or might be even a tutorial? > > > > Debian-based systems become de-facto "the community Linux" in the > > > Python world due to the simplicity of maintenance and deployment of > > > Python software. But I think we still are far behind at promoting > > > ourselves, so I thought it would be nice if "Debian" appears at PyCon > > > (some corporate Linux-related entities are already among sponsors where > > > Debian is unlikely to be listed). I am not sure yet if I would get any > > > funds to attend but I am thinking about submitting two proposals for > > > > 1. talk on "The universal Python distribution or build your own stack" > > > > in many fields of endeavor people talk about stacks and python > > > distributions which make easy to build/deploy suck stacks. So I > > > thought that we should not be shy and present Debian as the best > > > platform for anyone -- either ran on bare metal (preferable) or in a > > > VM (for new adopters). But then we might have released wheezy which > > > would be a good base for the talk -- present what fresh release has > > > brought to the community in this stable environment. > > > > Previously I have done a similar talk with an accent on a scientific > > > Python stack in Debian [1] which I thought was quite well accepted. > > > > 2. tutorial on "Debian packaging of Python modules/software" > > > > since tutorials are separate from the main registration (i.e. require > > > separate payment if I got it right) I am not quite sure how many > > > people would be interested to attend it. But I guess it should not > > > hurt to submit one and for the committee to decide. > > > > Also it might be worth asking for a table/booth space (I think I saw > > > that somewhere on pycon website) for the Debian project. > > > > I would be glad to get any feedback (i.e. "not worth the money/time > > > spent", "you might like better to ...", ...) and recommendations on how > > > to get funds for the trip (I will apply for the "financial aid" but more > > > ideas e.g. "kickstarter project?", "I think my company might be > > > interested to cover...", etc) ;) > > > > Cheers, > -- > Yaroslav O. Halchenko > Postdoctoral Fellow, Department of Psychological and Brain Sciences > Dartmouth College, 419 Moore Hall, Hinman Box 6207, Hanover, NH 03755 > Phone: +1 (603) 646-9834 Fax: +1 (603) 646-1419 > WWW: http://www.linkedin.com/in/yarik > > > -- > To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to debian-python-REQUEST@lists.debian.org > with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact listmaster@lists.debian.org > Archive: [🔎] 20120927125137.GO26676@onerussian.com">http://lists.debian.org/[🔎] 20120927125137.GO26676@onerussian.com > -- .''`. Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org> : :' : Proud Debian Developer `. `'` 4096R / 8F04 9AD8 2C92 066C 7352 D28A 7B58 5B30 807C 2A87 `- http://people.debian.org/~paultag
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