On Thursday, April 16, 2020 6:22:32 PM EDT Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > Le 16 avril 2020 23:17:46 GMT+02:00, Scott Kitterman <debian@kitterman.com> a écrit : > >On Thursday, April 16, 2020 4:58:08 PM EDT Pierre-Elliott Bécue wrote: > >... > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> I'm contacting you both publicly (via debian-project@) and privately > >(on > >> your GMail address) in the name of the Community Team following this > >> subthread. > > > >Sigh. > > > >To quote from the recent DPL delegation for your team: > >> * To work with teams responsible for communications channels within > >> the community such as listmasters, the owner of the Bug Tracking > >> System, administrators of Debian Planet and others to provide > >> advice; where desired by these teams, helping to deal with > >> contentious and difficult issues that impact the community. > > > >and > > > >> This delegation grants no explicit power to the Community Team to > >> enforce decisions; the power granted by this delegation is advisory. > >> However, other teams may work with the Community Team as they choose > >> and may allow the community team to have power within their channels. > >> As an example, at the time of this delegation, some community team > >> members are involved in list moderation. Within the rules > > > >established > > > >> by listmaster for the use of this moderation power, it is appropriate > >> for community team members to use such power in furtherance of the > >> Community Team mission. > > > >Are you a listmaster? According to > >https://www.debian.org/intro/organization > >you are not. Assuming that's the case, I think you're out of line. If > > > >there's a problem on a Debian list, it's the listmaster's role to > >address it. > >I'm further assuming that if the listmasters had asked the Community > >Team to > >take an active role in policing Debian lists, they would have mentioned > >it. > > > >I've been skeptical about this delegation, but come on! Can't you even > >last > >two days without going outside your mandate? > > > >Scott K > > I have the feeling that maybe some basic concepts are not clear to you, so > I'll state these here to avoid a rinse and repeat process. > > The Community Team is just a (now delegated) group of Developers where > people know that they can find some advice and that will try to find > solutions to Community Issues, eg by working with other teams when it is > relevant. > > But no one has to be part of a team to ask some things out. Anyone is free > to ask someone to do something, eg not posting anymore about a sadly > remembered historical person on a list. You are free to ask, I'm free to > ask, even a listmaster is free to ask. > > What I can't do is force someone to not post anymore on a list, and I'm > currently not doing so. And, indeed, only a listmaster (or list moderators, > as it became a thing now) can and I'd rather keep it that way. > > What I'm doing here is asking someone to stop posting about something, and > I'm not crossing any line by doing that, otherwise this line has been so > much crossed in the past years it doesn't exist anymore. > > What I'm implying by stating that it is an official CT request is that we > have been contacted or prompted to do something and that we will consider > asking, eg the listmasters, some advice or opinions should the matter > continue. > > In some way it's a bit like when you see someone in the but putting his > shoes on the seat in front of them. You don't wait to feel entitled by > being a transportation officer to ask nicely the person to remove thein > feet from the seat. > > Because we are a community of people, we have a right to expect others to > understand what we ask of them without being some sort of police officer. > > With best regards, When you say you are acting "in the name of the Community Team", you don't get to claim you're just like everyone else. I agree that any project member (or list participant for that matter) can and should take steps to improve the tone of the list. That's not what you did. You invoked the power of your delegated authority (whatever it might be) to give your act special weight. While you may not have the power to ban people directly, based on the delegation your team's recommendations regarding interpretation of the CoC do get special consideration. If we're all equal, some of us are more equal than others. It you'd left off the part I quoted and said everything else you said, I'd have had no objection. I'd have thought you were going a bit overboard, but not enough for me to question it. As a DD, I'm required to subscribe to d-d-a. As a package maintainer I'm required to receive non-spam emails from the BTS. As an FTP Team member there are certain communication requirements. I'm about --><--- this close to just dumping everything else because it's too draining. Scott K
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