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Re: KickStarter for Debian packages - crowdfunding/donations for development

On Fri, Jun 14, 2013 at 05:14:27PM -0400, Manu Sporny wrote:
> I agree, which is why the payment details live completely outside the
> Debian systems. The only thing you'd need to initiate payment is an
> e-mail address, or a PaySwarm financial account address, which looks
> like this:
> https://dev.payswarm.com/i/manu/accounts/public-account

Interesting. So one would have to set up a payswarm instance to collect,
or piggy back on a public instance?

> requirements when you process payments; know your customer (KYC) is one
> of them. There are also anti-money laundering regulations that you must
> ensure you follow to comply with the law. All of these things are things

Which law? US law? We're an international org, are the laws standard
worldwide? We have Developers in every jurisdiction you can imagine :)

> that the Debian project doesn't want to (or have to) deal with wrt. the
> current proposal.
> > I think allowing users to 'tip' would be nice, but it creates this 
> > system where now everyone wants to co-maint gcc, bash, libc, linux 
> > and not really "do" anything.
> Right, which is why one solution is making it up to the package
> maintainers and software authors to figure out how payments should be
> split up. I think we all agree that tips should be distributed based on
> merit and that the maintainers have a pretty good idea of how that
> should go. In the event that the maintainers and upstream can't come to
> an agreement, they could always just opt to send the donation upstream
> to the Debian Project.

Right, but this leads to one of two things:

  - No money is shared with dependencies (leading to people flocking to
    awesomewm, gnome, kde, chrome, wine, apache2, etc)

  - Money is shared with dependencies (leading to people flocking to
    gcc, linux, libc6)

In both cases, Debian Project Members (non-uploading / non-maintainers)
don't get any love either. We could use pseudo-packages to help (e.g.
donate www.debian.org $1,000,000), but I can't imagine that's complete
(we'd never donate gsoc-team-alpha $500, for instance).

In the case where we do always split it, it kills a bit of the motivation
for tipping packages in general.

> > Payment systems in general tend to lead to "paybullying", which is 
> > something I'd really (really) like to avoid. I've always loved how 
> > un-corporate the Debian community is.
> I agree that we really don't want that. Any suggestions about how we
> might be able to avoid it?

I'm not sure, but I've seen at least one high-profile F/OSS project
maintainer (with project email, writing from it) saying "I've written a
patch for this bug, it's done, but you need to give me money before I
release it". Putting an official system into place might make this more
common / easier to make look "official".

> Let me know if the above makes sense. I'd be happy to answer more
> questions if it would help. :)

Thank you! :)

> > P.S., I do like your work on JSON-LD, Manu!
> Thanks! Fun fact: We built JSON-LD because of PaySwarm. We needed to
> make sure that the core financial protocol could be extensible in a
> distributed way, and JSON-LD ended up being the solution for that.


> You can see how JSON-LD is used for the PaySwarm financial protocol and
> digital receipts here:
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/04/payswarm-part-2/
> https://hacks.mozilla.org/2013/04/web-payments-with-payswarm-purchasing-part-3-of-3/
> -- manu
> -- 
> Manu Sporny (skype: msporny, twitter: manusporny, G+: +Manu Sporny)
> Founder/CEO - Digital Bazaar, Inc.
> blog: Meritora - Web payments commercial launch
> http://blog.meritora.com/launch/


 .''`.  Paul Tagliamonte <paultag@debian.org>
: :'  : Proud Debian Developer
`. `'`  4096R / 8F04 9AD8 2C92 066C 7352  D28A 7B58 5B30 807C 2A87
 `-     http://people.debian.org/~paultag

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