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Re: Debian Etch Stable.

On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 05:47:53PM +1000, Anthony Towns wrote:
> On Tue, Dec 12, 2006 at 08:38:05AM +0100, Alexis Sukrieh wrote:
> > Anthony Towns a ?crit :
> > >Personally, I'd say that now would be the time for any anti-payment
> > >people to say "we can do this better, and look, we'll prove it", and make
> > >up their own target date for etch, and demonstrate how much energy and
> > >effort can be mustered just by having a good idea and good people and
> > >putting them together to get a goal achieved. 
> > As the DPL who set up the experiment we are talking about, I understand 
> > your anger against the so called "anti-payment" people, but please take 
> > into consideration the following:
> I'm not angry. I just think now's the perfect opportunity for people
> who think paying people isn't or shouldn't be what Debian's about
> to demonstrate that there's an alternative that better achieves this
> particular goal. In particular starting now has the benefit that while
> there's still a lot to do, the licensing arguments are already dealt with,

The licensing arguments has not been dealt with, due to a set of circumstances
you where also partly responsible for, we are now in a worse mess than in
august, and the vote resulted in a situation where the voters where deluded
about what they voted, and the RMs where forced to give out a statement where
they directly contradict the text of the vote, and nobody is really interested
in ever hearing about non-free firmware anymore.

Consider the lost oportunity, we could have had a good resolution, which we
could have used as a basis to approach upstream of problematic firmwares, but
instead we have a mess, which punishes those vendors who did act on our
contact last fall, and favours those who did nothing. I was personally going
to lead that effort, but given how i was handled, and how i was insulted on
irc for trying to find a good resolution, and negotiating with all parties,
trying to find a middle ground between those of the kernel team who said they
would have left if the non-free firmware was removed, and those strong
non-free removal proponents. And all this to end in this mess, and being
repeteadly insulted by my fellow DDs, there is no way you will get me involved
in this kind of stuff anymore.

And there is a parallel in this "experiment" thingy. It resulted in such a
motivation killer that it was more destructive than any other possible path,
and will have long term consequences. You cannot engage in such actions, and
then act as if nothing happened, and say : now it is your turn to prove it was
a bad idea, and so to cleverly get everyone to work on the goal you have


Sven Luther

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