Re: Position Statement to the Dunc-Tanc "experiment"
This is going to be a personal reply, containing my personal opinion
On Thu, Oct 26, 2006 at 07:46:00PM +0200, Joerg Jaspert wrote:
> Especially since it is clear now that we
> currently can not keep the scheduled release date, even with DT paying
> our RMs.
Is that clear?
> - During the discussion before the experiment it was said that the
> living costs of the release managers are to be paid. Additionally it
> was said that it is "providing a reasonable amount of money to cover
> living expenses" and later on, that this is "below the average" they
> could get elsewhere. However, the official donation site
> mentions US$ 6000.00 for each release manager. We do consider this to
> be neither just "living costs" nor "below average", not even by
> applying common taxes and insurances one has to pay. On what grounds
> has this amount been calculated?
US$ 6000 is like 4.800 EUR. That's like a dayly rate of 220 EUR. Like
a fourth of what a contractor of Andi's and Steve's expertise would
cash in on the free market.
> People left the project, others
> are orphaning packages, the NEW queue is rising, system administration
> and security work is reduced, DWN is no longer released weekly and a lot
> of otherwise silent maintainers simply put off Debian work and work on
> something else. While some of these actions simply tend to happen, all
> the listed points are explicitly due to DT.
Just let me pick the NEW queue: Has it been stated publicly that
ftpmaster is going to reduce work spent on NEW due to dunc tank? Have
ftpmaster considered to accept offers to take over some of the work
load they are not motivated to do any more because they're not being
> Another bad feeling introduced by DT is that of a two-class
> project. Until DT, Debian has been a completely volunteer-based
> project. Today there are two paid Release Managers, opposed to all other
> project members. This creates a set of two "uber-DDs", in contrast to
> all the other nearly 1000 Developers and many more maintainers, whose
> work seems to be considered less important for Debian.
Actually, personally, I do feel more threatened by uber-DDs that
happen to be in power of ftp, system administration and other key
positions in Debian. Especially by the uber-DDs that are being paid by
a direct competitor.
If people need to be paid, I'd like them
(1) to be paid by the project
(2) to be paid by something friendly to the project
(3) to be paid by a competitor
I know of more DDs that (3) applies than of DDs that (2) applies. And
unfortunately, no DD that (1) applies to.
> Another statement we heard repeatedly from DT supporters is that "DT is
> a separate project and not Debian". We do think that this is, at best, a
> joke. The DT board consists solely of the current Debian Project Leader,
> his assistant and other high-profile Debian Developers, working on a
> Debian related project. This simply can't be seen as something separated
> From Debian and the public has already proven that it doesn't consider
> it a totally separate project.
I fully agree here.
> So, to summarize DTs effects on Debian: It has demotivated a lot of
> people who now either resigned, simply stopped doing (parts of their)
> Debian work or are doing a lot less than they did before DT was
At this place, one of our worst problems surfaces again: People stop
working _silently_ so that nobody can step in for them. And, even
worse, people in key positions (that need special privileges do work)
reduce their committment without stepping down, actively _prevent_
other people from doing their work. _THIS_ is doing _BIG_ harm to the
> Jörg Jaspert, ftp-master assistant, DAM, DebConf Organizer
> Alexander Schmehl, Debian Developer, press, event manager, DebConf Organizer
> Alexander Wirt, Debian Developer
> Daniel Priem, New Maintainer
> Martin Würtele, Debian Developer
> Gerfried Fuchs, Debian Developer
> Patrick Jäger, User
> Otavio Salvador, Debian Developer
> Joey Schulze, Debian Developer, Security, DWN, DSA, press, promoter
> Felipe Augusto van de Wiel, New Maintainer
> Sam Hocevar, Debian Developer
> Pierre Habouzit, Debian Developer
> Julien Danjou, Debian Developer, Stable Release Manager
> Peter Palfrader, Debian Developer
> Julien Blache, Debian Developer, promoter
> Christoph Berg, Debian Developer, QA, NM front-desk
> Holger Levsen, New Maintainer, DebConf Organizer
I'd like to know if these are the jobs that used to be done, or the
jobs that you guys intend to continue doing. Of course, I am
especially interested in that information for the jobs that need
special privileges, such as release manager, press, DWN, DSA,
Security, ftpmaster and/or DAM.
Marc Haber | "I don't trust Computers. They | Mailadresse im Header
Mannheim, Germany | lose things." Winona Ryder | Fon: *49 621 72739834
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