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Translators and vote rights (was: Re: Third call for votes for the debian project leader election 2006)

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Hi, sorry to arrive late to the party, but I would like to give a
non-DD translator point of view on this thread.

On 04/05/2006 08:02 AM, Frans Pop wrote:
> On Wednesday 05 April 2006 11:44, JC Helary wrote:
>>There is a huge confusion between being a developer and having
>>technical rights, and being a developer and having political rights.
> I seriously do wonder why translators, if they really want to get the 
> developer status, don't get together and just apply for NM. That would 
> force the project to develop a strategy to deal with it (if there really 
> is something that needs to be dealt with).

	One important thing that I would like to add to this thread,
it the fact that are lots and lots of "hit and run" translators and
there are lots of translators that do not want vote rights. (I, as
a translator, do not want people that do not understand how Debian
works to vote to the next DPL).

	It has been stated lots and lots of times in this thread
that translators can apply to NM and get these rights which is
great and I agree as the proper way to go. I really agree with Frans
and others on this thread about this.

> But no, what really happens is that every year or so, there is some mild 
> flamewar - coincidentally (?) always around the time of a DPL election - 
> about how "things should be better" and "why are we not allowed to vote".
> And then things are magically silent again for about 10 months.
> In the end my conclusion is that most translators are quite happy with 
> their current status. They know their work is appreciated and in general 
> they get the support and access rights they need through the huge efforts 
> of the i18n coordinators.
> The same goes for documentation writers (although there is a distinct lack 
> of those) and website maintainers (same; hi Jutta).

	Exactly! Lots of translators are happy translating and being
recognized by their efforts. I know translators that do not want the
responsability to vote and they don't want to have upload access, they
just want to translate and have fun doing that.

	As a translator, I really think that translators can become
DD through NM proccess (if we need changes in NM let's do it, if we
need changes in the website or docs to state it clear let's do it),
but creating another class (area, name, relation or whatever people
is calling it) is insane, because we will need to duplicate some of
our procedures instead of just improving the ones we have and are
perfectly suitable to the job/task.

	As the time I'm writing this, looks like that we are getting
to an agreement that people involved with translation, documentation,
website and other non-package areas could become DD throught NM and
we don't need to create another class/name/type/relation, which is

> How do I dare say this? Simple: I _did_ enter Debian as a translator / 
> documentation writer only last year. My NM process was one of the 
> shortest in recent history (6 months), partly because the T&S part was 
> reduced, partly because I had a lot of support, but mostly through 
> showing commitment and jumping in where help was needed.
> In short: if you want to be a Developer, stop pussyfooting around, find an 
> Advocate, talk things over with him/her and apply! Write a mail to the 
> Front Desk to make it clear that you do want to enter the project as a 
> translator or documentation writer.
> The main thing is to show commitment to the project. What helps a lot is 
> being willing to work (and having done work!) on other areas than "just" 
> translating your own language.
> Be prepared to go into discussion with your Account Manager if you feel 
> (s)he is setting too technical tasks. But also be prepared to answer 
> quite a few questions about what "suites" are, how packages move from one 
> to the other, how the BTS works, etc. After all, you are entering Debian, 
> so you should know at least the basics of its infrastructure and how to 
> use it (or at least, how not to abuse it).
> Debian is a distribution consisting of packages, so naturally its 
> organizational focus is on people who create those packages. But if you 
> want to get in on another basis, you can get in.
> If you don't think it's worth the effort, then just be happy with the 
> contribution you already do make and know that it is very much 
> appreciated.
> If you don't want to learn the basic technical infrastructure of the 
> project, than maybe it is better that you are not a "Developer" but 
> instead let the i18n coordinators take the responsibility for that.


	Kind regards,

- --
Felipe Augusto van de Wiel (faw)
"Debian. Freedom to code. Code to freedom!"
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