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Re: Some Comments on Sexism in #debian

Lukas, I see that you are coming from a position of a lot of hurt and
pain.  I empathize with your suffering.  How can we list-members help
you out?


On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 08:07:53AM -0500, Lukas Geyer wrote:
Jonathan Walther <krooger@debian.org> writes:

On Sun, Mar 07, 2004 at 06:34:23PM -0500, David Nusinow wrote:
>On Mon, Mar 08, 2004 at 12:22:44PM +1300, Mike Beattie wrote:
>> Matt, I hate to burst your bubble, but IRC is not real life, and in the
>> grand scheme of things it really doesn't matter - we do not control what
>> people say or do. We cannot, and we will not.
>That's absurd. People get kicked and banned for obvious trolling,
>crapflooding, and racist remarks. We can and we do control what people
>say or do, and we can do better.

Sounds pretty fascist to me.  Spamming/crapflooding is grounds for a
ban, but for the other things, sometimes people need to blow off steam.

Oh, you think that male hackers generate sexist steam inside which
they have to blow off at periodic intervals? Interesting theory, but I
do not think we have to give them a forum in Debian. Oh, and your
definition of "fascism" is laughable, maybe you should read up a bit
on history.

Debian is apolitical, so it should not be making political judgements on
its official IRC channels.

It is not a political judgment, it is a matter of the atmosphere in
the channel. Why do we have to tolerate off-topic remarks which make
the channel hostile or uncomfortable for women (or any other group,
for that matter)? I have never heard of anything in our social
contract or constitution which compels us to give a forum for all
sorts of offensive behavior, but maybe I missed something central in
our foundation documents?

If someone makes legally actionable threats on the channel, that should
be dealt with by kicking, banning, and notifying the appropriate
authorities.  Anything else should be dealt with through community
censure and leading by example, not by banishment.

"Legally actionable" in which legislature? Why should we adopt our
criteria for kicking and banning from government legislation? And why
is it not ok to "censure" someone by removing him from the channel? Do
you prefer lengthy flamewars in the channel? Do you think the people
who are offended by sexist remarks have nothing better to do than
flaming offenders all day long?


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