Re: Debian as a social group and how to develop it better

[Xavian-Anderson Macpherson <PrimaryCausality@ATTBI.com>]

Hi Pete (and all),

I realize that my comment can be taken offensively, I am sorry.  What I mean
by 'corner mom and pop', is that most companies that do or are likely to
install Debian, are primarily comprised of individuals who are purists.  That
notion of intellectual purity is not mainstream.  As such, organizations
so comprised are not likely to have a major influence on the commercial acceptance
of Debian.  As the first necessity of any commercial venture would require
a restructuring of the Debian initiative.  Debian does not respond to the
introduction of new products (hardware) in a manner that is timely enough
for any large commercial venture to stake their profitablility on.  This
is why SuSE is becoming so successful.  When I ran SuSE, all of my new hardware
was immediately recognized and functional upon installation of my system.
 Specifically, my Logitech webcam.  Which allowed me to enjoy a high degree
of pleasure which I have not yet had with Debian.  My primary reason for
installing Debian, was that I wanted a 'base' system that I 'thought' would
be more universal than SuSE.  My only real gripe with SuSE has been their
use of filenames in contradiction to those used by mostly everyone else.
 I have this awful habit of installing software from distributions other
than my installed system.  When I did this with SuSE, it caused nothing but
trouble.  Collectively, if Linux is to become a reasonable or even rational
alternative to MS, it has to be as uniform as that other system in the
installation of software.  Linux is definitely not in that state of being.
 And unfortunately, it seems that it does not want to be either.  This new
joint venture of the UnitedLinux project has really caught my attention,
as it will everyone else who is interested in commercial offerings of Linux
software.  But it should come as not surprise to anyone, that it is led by
the largest commercial distibutions of Linux.  To expect anything else other
than this is naivety.  And it should also come as no surprise that the software
is NOT free!!  No one who is spending money to make money, is going to throw
away money on a system (Debian) that refuses to acknowledge commercial nece$$ity.
 Only companies who produce systems for small niches of customers, who have
similar aspirations or notions to the systems integrator, can sell those
systems.  I would not and do not recommend Debian to anyone who is not very
computer literate (geeks)!

Oh, and I also chose Debian because it would load on my preexisting XFS filesystem.
 I had installed XFS, after researching and trying an installation of MCSLinux.
 I then ran SuSE on that system after realizing MCS would not shutdown properly
with my motherboard, or recognize the built in sound devices.  I had alot
of downloaded software (while running SuSE) I did not want to loose.  Redhat
did not have it's own XFS compatable system.  It did have gcc-3.2, but not
XFS.  So that was another deciding factor for Debian.  I had also considered
Slackware, but didn't like the installation system.  SuSE never presents
this kind of trouble, because they tend to always be on the leading edge
of implementing options no one else offers at installation time.  I don't
care how good you may think your system is, if the customer cannot install
it with all of what they want, they won't!!  That is another one of those
commercial realitie$that Debian refuses to acknowledge.  I have been using
Linux for about two years, and while I am admittedly not an expert, I do
have enough experience to make decent appraisals of it.  If SuSE stops it''s
counterculture counterproductive renaming scheme, or if they are able to
cause every one else to sit at their table and eat their menu, SuSE will
become the defacto Linux, and all else will follow through their UnitedLinux
effort.  So let's see how long it will take for SuSE to prove me right!

Pete Ryland wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> I'm not sure what you mean by ``corner mom and pop'' but if you are
> implying that our machines are not professionally assembled then I can
> assure you that our engineers are well-credentialed and we turn over a
> large number of machines per year with very few returns, and at very
> competitive prices.  We can install any flavour of Linux you desire (but
> we do specialise in Debian) and we can arrange support for you too.
> However a lot of our Linux customers seem to be happy to arrange their
> own.  For larger enterprises, we also have special hire rates and we can
> do installation.
>
> Best regards,
> Pete Ryland
> PewterSystems plc
>
> On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 21:51, Xavian-Anderson Macpherson wrote:
> > The "operative word" was commercial, and as such, i was specifically
> > refering to large commercial ventures, not the corner mom and pop
> > retail establishment.  Case in point, IBM is using SuSE as their linux
> > provider, chiefly due to the fact that SuSE has excellent corporate
> > support.  And unless Debian were to offer that same degree of support,
> > Debian will not be a commercial venture.
> >
> > Pete Ryland wrote:
> > > On Wed, 2002-12-11 at 00:26, Xavian-Anderson Macpherson wrote:
> > >   
> > > > Maybe do to the that Debian is not a Commercial Distribution, it is
> > > > not likely that alot of companies are going to distribute it
> > > > commercially.
> > > >     
> > > >       
> > > I do. :)
> > >
> > > I can ship you a system to your hardware spec to anywhere in the UK,
> > > pre-installed with Debian.  I can source parts from a large number of
> > > distributors, ensuring you pay the lowest price for your selected
> > > components, and only charge GBP50 for assembly and testing.
> > >
> > > Best regards,
> > > Pete Ryland
> > >   
> > >     
> >