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Re: irc.debian.org

On Sun, Aug 18, 2002 at 09:24:24PM +0200, Josip Rodin wrote:
> > > > That said, OPN does not host *any* "official" Debian stuff. #debian is
> > > > run by the network itself; several other channels are run and
> > > > frequented by developers, but so what? The Debian project itself does
> > > > not run any channels there.
> > > 
> > > No, irc.debian.org points to OPN and #debian on irc.debian.org is the
> > > officially recommended Debian support channel. OPN has always been
> > > acknowledged as our endorsed IRC network and is listed at our partners
> > > web page because of this.
> > > 
> > > Debian doesn't run any channels -- for crying out loud, that is why OPN is
> > > there!
> > 
> > None of that is in conflict with what I said. OPN is endorsed as a
> > network, but the project does not have any actual resources or
> > channels hosted there.
> Your meaning of "not having channels hosted there" completely evades me.
> I consider #debian a Debian channel that is hosted there. Isn't that so?
> (It is an OPN channel in the basis, of course, but also Debian's because of
> the deal to have irc.d.o == irc.op.n.)

So we have irc.debian.org pointed to irc.openprojects.net because
#debian is an "official" debian channel because irc.debian.org is
pointed there? Sorry, circular reasoning doesn't fly. The channel
isn't run or controlled by Debian.

> > > > So, what should criteria should we have for such DNS names?
> > > 
> > > The one that we've had so far.
> > 
> > I see no documented criteria.
> Which doesn't mean that criteria doesn't exist, just that it's not
> documented.

All I have to do is quote this one; it speaks for itself.

> > > > Should we reserve *.debian.org for official Debian services?
> > > 
> > > It is already reserved.
> > 
> > Except that it isn't. irc.debian.org exists, which is not an official
> > Debian service at all - it's an independant service that Debian
> > endorses.
> Your definition of "official Debian" is wrong. We use "official Debian sth"
> for a wide array of independent services that we endorse.

I invite you to quote other names in the debian.org domain which fall
into the same category as this one. Or even examples of other
independant services which are endorsed in this manner. The only
occurance of this term I can find is in reference to mechanisms for
acquiring copies of the distribution itself.

> > It's quite possible that this CNAME should not exist at all.
> That would certainly be an option, were it not for the fact this name has
> propagated to many packages' default configurations, users' configurations
> and after all, users' minds.

"Because we have endorsed a given project in the past, the project is
forced to continue to endorse some project for this purpose".

I think not. We've dropped interfaces in the past and we'll do it
again in the future.

> The criteria is pretty firm, I haven't seen a new foo.debian.org assigned to
> a new services, well, ever since I joined. We obviously don't add aliases
> for all Debian services. The aliases we have now are usually whatever the
> founders felt was necessary. They picked services based on what the users
> wanted, what we could implement, and of course what was necessary for Debian
> to operate nicely.
> Anyway, if you want to define this criteria in a written document, by all
> means, go ahead. But lack of such a thing should not prevent applying sound
> judgement to the issue of whether we should have irc.d.o point to a network
> that needlessly solicits donations to pay salary to its admin.

[In these two paragraphs you want to make a political statement on
behalf of the project members, and say that these statements are made
by a cabal and not the developers as a whole.

Go figure.]

"Sound judgement" means we define the criteria we use, compare the
available options against those critera, and pick the best one. You'd
sound a hell of a lot less like Theo de Raadt if you actually made
some attempt at doing this, rather than attempting to hand us an
answer you brought down from the mountain engraved on stone tablets.

  .''`.  ** Debian GNU/Linux ** | Andrew Suffield
 : :' :  http://www.debian.org/ | Dept. of Computing,
 `. `'                          | Imperial College,
   `-             -><-          | London, UK

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