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Re: irc.debian.org

Wichert Akkerman wrote:
> Previously Rob Levin wrote:
> > I think the Debian project benefits from the cross- fertilization,
> > from the exposure to other groups and other projects.
> I'm not sure we get cross-fertilization from being on OPN. It is
> convenient to have lots of free software related channels on a single
> network but then again pretty much all clients have decent multi-server
> support these days.

I agree. This thread began with the question of which IRC network we
should point our users to. Unstated was the assumption that the main
#debian channel should be on a large irc network at all. I wonder why we
need one.

  We get a network of irc servers.
  They netsplit frequently due to the nature of irc.

  We already have servers, and bandwidth, and it would seem to could
  create a small, stable irc network that could handle our modest load
  of ~700 concurrent clients. I don't know how well irc scales; could a
  single server handle that load?

  We can avoid the necessary work of keeping the network running and
  maintained and dealing with the attacks and bad behavior that irc
  engenders, as the network has people who do that.
  As has been mentioned, we have debian developers who do that work on
  OPN and other networks already. So we know how to do it and we have
  people who could do it if they desired to do so.
  A single server would be less of a target than an entire irc network.
  Compare with lists.debian.org, which we could after all farm out to
  yahoo or something and put up with advertising, but we instead, and
  quite rightly, host it ourselves, and deal with administration

  Part of a larger community, cross-fertilization, etc.
  What Wichert said, plus see all the politics that has been dragged
  into this thread by people who seem to be part of some different,
  conflicting communities in addition to their membership in the debian

  And quoting Bdale:
  > Actually, what I observed was that of the various IRC channels that I spend
  > time on personally, the ones that seem to be the least irritating and
  > the most useful are the ones where a single, non-IRC-networked server is
  > hosting the channel.

  Specifically pro OPN is that they really want to replace irc with
  something better, and they really badly seems to need to be done.
  This is long-term and tenative, and we'd effectively be selling our
  users for the possiblity we might one day get this. I think worrying
  about depriving OPN of users and thus revenue and thus eventually losing
  this is too altruistic; we should focus on what is best for us and our
  users. Anyway there seems to be a lot of push away from OPN in this thread,
  and if we move to some other network we lose this possible benefit anyway.

So I don't see much benefit to us in using a large network managed by
someone else, unless politics and apathy keep us from hosting our own.

I say all this as a long-time and mostly happy user of OPN, who has
known lilo in RL and likes him and admires his stated goals, and who has
been much more bothered by all the netsplits than the advertising, and
who would continue to use it for a few other channels anyway. But in
retrospect the decision to point irc.debian.org at OPN didn't buy us

see shy jo

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