Re: Let's start a survey on our userbase
On Wed, 2025-09-24 at 11:01 +0200, Linux User #330250 wrote:
> My point is the following: I've been using Linux, Gentoo Linux
> specifically, since the early 2000s. I came from an Intel Pentium III
> <1GHz 32-Bit to PPC32 (a G4). It was impressive how easy it was to
> transition from Little Endian to Big Endian, just copy my /home, and
> move on as if it would be nothing... Instead I had changed from IA-32 to
> PPC32. I was very happy (late 2000s). I then updated to 64-Bit PowerPC,
> a PowerMac G5, and this is when I started to have more and more
> problems. Software wasn't available (Java, only the binary IBM build),
> didn't run as expected or didn't compile. Overall, PPC64 was more of a
> hazzle -- with Gentoo Linux! -- than was e.g. x64. For example, I had
> frequent issues with kernel updates (always cutting edge) and driver
> software (like nouveau, radeon and stuff like mesa). I then transitioned
> to x64 in the early 2010s. (Gentoo is time consuming as it is, on PPC64
> even more so.)
Well, but Debian isn't Gentoo, so I don't see the relevance.
> An attempt to get back to my G5 on Gentoo showed how hard it had gotten.
> Kernels were not working (I had to use an older, "G5-tested" version)
> and so forth. The point where I stopped was when I had to move from 64K
> pagesize to 4k due to the graphics driver (I think it was nouveau) which
> was incompatible with 64k pagesize, only to find that Btrfs was locked
> in to the initial pagesize... (AFAIK they later fixed nouveau for 64k
> pagesize, but I was too busy with work at that point.)
>
> BTW it seems like Debian was moving to 4k pagesize as well:
> https://officialaptivi.wordpress.com/2024/08/27/debian-13-will-boost-your-powerpc-64-performance/
> (with the same caveats, I believe), and with the option to stay with 64k.
No, Debian is not moving to 64k kernels as it allows you to switch, we
build both 4k and 64k kernels.
> This all won't be the case when I start using Debian instead of Gentoo
> on the same machine. And from what I read here, Debian works very well
> too on PPC32 Macs too.
>
> Pointing out the problems shouldn't in any way make you stop doing what
> you're doing. The opposite is the case: I'm here BECAUSE I care.
> Otherwise you wouldn't read from me...
But problems on Gentoo don't necessarily exist on Debian that's why I'm not
sure experience or problems with Gentoo are relevant here.
If there is an issue with Debian on PowerPC, it should be reported and we
can take a look at it.
> In any case: Thank you, keep doing what you're doing.
>
> Also: message recieved. I'll stop interrupting at this point. If you
> hear from me again it should be because I'm installing Debian on my G5
> or G4... (Or when I know something that might help, despite me not
> actually using Debian/PowerPC at this point.)
I don't have problems with criticism and bugs being reported. I just don't
see the point discussing such fundamental questions on the viability of
PowerPC or big-endian targets.
I think everyone is aware that 64-bit little-endian targets are dominating,
but I would argue that most people are here because they enjoy working
with these old or obscure platforms.
Adrian
--
.''`. John Paul Adrian Glaubitz
: :' : Debian Developer
`. `' Physicist
`- GPG: 62FF 8A75 84E0 2956 9546 0006 7426 3B37 F5B5 F913
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