Bug#944920: Revise terminology used to specify requirements
- To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name>
- Cc: Guillem Jover <guillem@debian.org>, 944920@bugs.debian.org
- Subject: Bug#944920: Revise terminology used to specify requirements
- From: Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org>
- Date: Sat, 29 Feb 2020 21:38:10 -0800
- Message-id: <[🔎] 87eeucbpod.fsf@hope.eyrie.org>
- Reply-to: Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org>, 944920@bugs.debian.org
- In-reply-to: <874kv9s5vt.fsf@iris.silentflame.com> (Sean Whitton's message of "Sat, 29 Feb 2020 09:41:26 -0700")
- References: <157401421185.25804.5928858583887985296.reportbug@wanderer.eyrie.org> <87tv72t5p8.fsf@iris.silentflame.com> <157401421185.25804.5928858583887985296.reportbug@wanderer.eyrie.org> <87bltaeyzg.fsf@hope.eyrie.org> <157401421185.25804.5928858583887985296.reportbug@wanderer.eyrie.org> <87o8vjg7bx.fsf@hope.eyrie.org> <20200126024803.GA19384@gaara.hadrons.org> <157401421185.25804.5928858583887985296.reportbug@wanderer.eyrie.org> <87zhe6aqj3.fsf@iris.silentflame.com> <157401421185.25804.5928858583887985296.reportbug@wanderer.eyrie.org> <20200130001608.GA836594@thunder.hadrons.org> <874kv9s5vt.fsf@iris.silentflame.com> <157401421185.25804.5928858583887985296.reportbug@wanderer.eyrie.org>
Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name> writes:
> One issue with using uppercased words is that people might think the
> words have the same meaning as they do in RFCs, which they don't.
> Your idea of marking keywords in bold wouldn't have this problem, and
> maybe it would actually make it /easier/ to write patches because you
> can see more clearly which of your words mean what.
It does have the drawback of being either less obvious or a bit noisy in
the text output format, though, which I suspect is reasonably heavily
used.
I'm not sure our definitions are that far off from the RFC terms. We're
not defining a protocol, so it's inherently a little different, but there
are some clear equivalents. And it would avoid reinventing a new
typographic convention.
A long time ago, Manoj proposed a deeper, more comprehensive fix: stop
writing Policy as English prose and instead explicitly state normative
requirements in some sort of numbered, clear fashion, and then add a prose
informative explanation if warranted. But I'm a bit dubious of that. Not
only would it be a ton of work, but the more formal phrasing will require
repeating ourself a lot more.
Personally, I think I'm leaning mildly towards the all-caps keywords
because of familiarity and compatibility with a pure text format, although
I could be convinced otherwise.
I do think making this change is a good idea.
> Thinking more, I believe that the issue you're raising here is separate
> from what Russ is trying to achieve in this bug. The problem you're
> identifying here already exists in Policy, before Russ's change is
> applied. So maybe we should discuss it separately.
Yes, I'm behind but that was the thing I wanted to say: I'd like to merge
this change (I haven't looked at more recent reviews, since I've been
distracted with work, so I don't know off-hand if it's ready for merging
otherwise) and then tackle this issue separately. But I do think it's
time to tackle it.
>> BTW I guess the instances of «might» and «shall» need to be converted,
>> or added to the keyword list? What about «may not», or «can», «can't»,
>> «cannot» and «could»? And I'm probably missing other words. :)
> I don't think we need to convert words that don't explicitly appear in
> the keywords list -- "may not" would inherit its meaning from "may"
> being a keyword, wouldn't it?
I think that if the word doesn't appear in the keyword list, it shouldn't
have any normative meaning. I have intentionally used the words can and
cannot in Policy text precisely because they don't have normative meaning
and don't state Policy requirements. For example, in:
If punctuation is desired between the date components, remember that
hyphen (``-``) cannot be used in native package versions.
the "cannot" is not a normative Policy requirement, just a description of
a logical consequence of a definition stated earlier.
--
Russ Allbery (rra@debian.org) <https://www.eyrie.org/~eagle/>
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