Bug#459427: changelog vs. NEWS handling
- To: Sean Whitton <spwhitton@spwhitton.name>
- Cc: 459427@bugs.debian.org, gregor herrmann <gregoa@debian.org>, Russ Allbery <rra@debian.org>, Bill Allombert <ballombe@debian.org>, Jeremy Bicha <jbicha@debian.org>, Peter Eisentraut <peter_e@gmx.net>, Yuri D'Elia <wavexx@thregr.org>, Andrey Rahmatullin <wrar@debian.org>, Jakub Wilk <jwilk@debian.org>, Ian Jackson <ijackson@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
- Subject: Bug#459427: changelog vs. NEWS handling
- From: Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org>
- Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2018 23:00:07 +0300
- Message-id: <[🔎] 20180404200007.GS9516@localhost>
- Reply-to: Adrian Bunk <bunk@debian.org>, 459427@bugs.debian.org
- In-reply-to: <[🔎] 87fu4aer02.fsf@iris.silentflame.com>
- References: <20080106135500.4600.6929.reportbug@colt.pezone.net> <20171203162409.rwraetilou5wy2w7@jadzia.comodo.priv.at> <20080106135500.4600.6929.reportbug@colt.pezone.net> <20180227160644.GA5841@localhost> <87371lpumw.fsf@hephaestus.silentflame.com> <20080106135500.4600.6929.reportbug@colt.pezone.net> <20180310210305.GU20833@localhost> <[🔎] 87fu4aer02.fsf@iris.silentflame.com> <20080106135500.4600.6929.reportbug@colt.pezone.net>
On Wed, Apr 04, 2018 at 12:00:29PM -0700, Sean Whitton wrote:
> Hello Adrian,
>
> Thank you for your continued effort to get this bug resolved.
>
> On Sat, Mar 10 2018, Adrian Bunk wrote:
>
> >> Please expand on why you think this is the way we have to proceed.
> >
> > you skipped the part of my email with the explanation:
> >
> > with such a piecemeal approach
> > we risk fragmentation based on debhelper compat level used, with every
> > new compat level installing different files in different locations.
>
> This is not inevitable. What I am envisaging is:
>
> - we hash out our preferred solution either in this bug or in the
> debhelper bug, with the debhelper maintainer having the final say on
> what gets implemented
> - debhelper implements all of that solution at exactly one compat level
> - the archive starts to use that compat level
> - Policy is updated.
This ensures that policy will always be horribly outdated.
> This is the standard way to make changes to Policy. The alternative is
> releases of Policy rendering many packages buggy, and that is undesirable.
>...
A new debhelper compat level making packages buggy according to policy
is what is desirable?
> Our delegation gives the Policy Editors editorial authority over the
> contents of the Policy Manual, but by means of the Policy Changes
> Process we delegate that authority back to the body of DDs.
>
> That means that changes have to establish consensus. How do we
> establish consensus on an issue like this, just by talking about it
> where everyone has a view? That's extremely hard. There's no way to
> bring the discussion to a close, and so the bug is still open after 10
> years.
Let me repeat what I already wrote earlier in this bug:
IMHO the way forward is to find a consensus text for a policy change,
Cc debian-devel on the proposal, and if no objections are raised release
a new policy with these changes.
> What we can do in this case is shortcircuit that process of establishing
> consensus by means of debhelper. The debhelper maintainer has authority
> over what debhelper will implement. So he implements something. If
> it's basically a sensible convention, almost everyone will start using
> it, even if it is not their number one choice of solution. But then we
> have enough of a consensus, so it's no longer problematic to change
The Policy Editors are a delegation, and the debhelper maintainer is
just a random person who happens to maintain this specific package.
Precedent is also that the Policy Editors do use their powers to
push through even a change that makes thousands of packages buggy
after an objection has been raised:
https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=844431#334
I begin to wonder whether I should take this personally.
> Sean Whitton
cu
Adrian
--
"Is there not promise of rain?" Ling Tan asked suddenly out
of the darkness. There had been need of rain for many days.
"Only a promise," Lao Er said.
Pearl S. Buck - Dragon Seed
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