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Bug#707851: Debian Menu Systems : Implementation of the TC decision



Le mardi, 29 septembre 2015, 14.34:35 Guillem Jover a écrit :
> Which contains the requirements for the XDG entry, one of those being
> the icon. If the upstream part does not contain a suitable icon, then
> removing the XDG entry and any relevant icon shipped in the debian/
> directory makes the application obviously non-compliant.
> 
> > Applications "should" be registered in the FreeDesktop menu if that
> > makes sense.
> 
> For a menu supporter who packages applications for their own use,
> I'd presume it would be obvious that making them inaccessible from
> their non-XDG compliant environment makes no sense.

Two points here:
* so far, both in the Policy and during the TC discussion, these "menu 
supporters" have been _mostly_ hypothetical;
* these entries would be absent as long as the "menu program" fail to 
properly use the 'XDG menu' entries, that's the point of the TC 
decision.

> > > So we might end up with packages by menu supporters removing
> > > .desktop files, and packages from XDG supporters removing .menu
> > > files. And users of either format caught inbetween.
> > 
> > The TC decision is saying "XDG menu is now the source, it should be
> > read by 'trad menu' programs,
> 
> W/o anyone to implement this in the menu programs, this is just
> wishful thinking, and might leave big chunks of our users with
> inaccessible applications. On either side of the fence.

Yes. That's exactly the point: the work to keep the 'trad menu' relevant 
is to be made by those who care about it.

> > In the light of the TC decision, I would personally consider a
> > package dropping an XDG desktop entry in favor of a menu entry
> > buggy (although there will certainly be cases debatable cases).
> 
> To me this is the equivalent of a package with suitable applications
> for the XDG menu, not currently shipping an XDG entry. So now you
> declare all those insta buggy as well.

Not anymore buggy than with the previous "trad menu" policy (§9.6 in 
3.9.6), for what is worth: it said:
> All packages that provide applications that need not be passed any
> special command line arguments for normal operation should register a
> menu entry for those applications.

Large parts of Debian have been buggy under this text, for a long time.

> > "The TC" is not going to engage in detailed design work (or
> > implementation work, for what is worth), although any of its members
> > could (but I don't see this happening).
> 
> Exactly my point. This is the equivalent of mandating that the Debian
> Future Team should design and implement an FTL engine, where of course
> the TC has not engaged in any design work. This to me fails §6.3.5.

I obviously disagree, but invite you to challenge this decision in 
forums other than the debian-policy list.

Second, the TC has not mandated any work to any particular team: it 
changed the ecosystem in which the 'trad menu' programs evolve. Mind 
you, program ecosystems evolve all the time; 'trad menu's was relying on 
the Debian Policy mandating entries for all applications "that need not 
be passed any special command line arguments", the TC decision drops 
that requirement.

--
OdyX

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