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Re: Debian Menu policy leads to confusion

Bill Allombert wrote:

> Well I see the Terminal entry as a window-manager specific
> configuration, so it does not belong in Debian menu.

I see your point. But then there is no reason to separate terminal
emulators from other applications, therefore I suggest moving them to
"Applications/Terminal Emulators". It might confuse old users, but
having things organized in a consistent intuitive way is more important
that traditions, in my opinion.

>> How about "Lockers"[1] and "Savers"[2]? Everybody knows what a term 
>> "screensaver" refers to. Locker could mean a drawer or a cupboard for 
>> native English speakers, though. Or maybe not.
>> [1] Screen/Lockers
>> [2] Screen/Savers
> It is clearer than Lock and Save.

Another alternative would be:

Screen/Security - for locking
Screen/Power    - for blanking the screen

Nowadays a screensaver (moving graphics) is really just a toy that saves
neither screen, nor power, so renaming this to "Power" might make
package maintainers rethink what belongs there. A single entry to start
a screensaver is fine, but is there a good reason for not having entries
for all sorts of graphics hacks (I like this term much more) in
"Games/Toys" or similar? The configuration GUIs should also go to

>> The question is, do they really deserve a separate section? (8 entries 
>> in total) The ability to draw to root window does not indicate the 
>> purpose of an application. Many can do that. Many do. Most are in 
>> different sections.
> There a bit related to bug #162849. They are application that do not 
> open windows.

The bug report is about daemons. I do not thinks these applications fall
under this category. Some of them even are purely GUI applications
(chbg, wallp).

[ What concerns actual daemons, I see no point in having them in menu at
all. If you have to look at output of "ps" in a terminal to see if it is
running, would it be too hard to type in the name of said daemon in the
same terminal? Anyways, this is only my point of view. ]

> Root-window should be reserved to menu entries (not programs) which sole
> purpose is to modify the Root-window. But it is not clear there are 
> enough of them to warrant a subsection.

I see "modify the Root-window" as entertainment. How is "xphoon"
different from, let us say, "xdesktopwaves" found in "Game/Toys"?

>> Maybe allow WM specific top level entries? Something like 
>> "Configuration" in Fluxbox root menu. These could be named after WM that 
>> uses them (for example "FVWM"), or simply "Modules". A person running a 
>> WM that uses modules can be expected to know what they are.
> In fact, they are already allowed. However this should not prevent us
> to improve the recommandation.

I would go with "Modules" as top level section. Nice and clear.

> I think games should be classified by the kind of interaction between
> the computer(s) and the player(s).

I am not sure I understand you. Could you please explain?

Below is a draft that includes the changes I suggested. The "Games"
section is omitted, but otherwise I think it turned out quite well.


Applications [was:Apps]
Normal applications. This is top level
section, do not put entries here.

 Accessibility [new]
 Tools to aid people with disabilities or
 on machines lacking usual input devices.
 gok, yasr, dasher

 Data Management [new]
 Interactive database programs, collection
 managers, bibliography tools etc.
 gaby, alexandria, mdbtools

 Editors, other than office word processors,
 for text based information.
 ksubtile, nano, hexedit

 Educational [was:Education]
 Educational and training software.
 gtypist, gcompris, quiz

 Software that allows you to run non-native
 software or more than one OS at a time.
 wine, dosemu, qemu

 File Management [new]
 Tools for file management, archiving,
 searching, CD/DVD burning and backup.
 file-roller, mc, baobab

 2D and 3D graphics manipulation software.
 gimp, inkscape, imagemagick

 HAM Radio [was:Hamradio]
 Anything relating to HAM radio.
 baken, hamsoft, twlog

 Mathematical [was:Math]
 Mathematics related software.
 gcalctool, snapea, xeukleides

 Mobile Devices [new]
 Software that allows you to interface
 with mobile devices (phones, PDA's etc.).
 kandy, gnokii, gnome-pilot

 Network [was:Net]
 Network related software. This is three level
 menu, do not put entries in second (this) level.

   Network/Communication [new]
   Chat, instant messaging, IP telephony,
   video conferencing software.
   xchat, gaim, gnomemeeting

   Network/File Transfer [new]
   File transfer software such as download
   managers, FTP clients, P2P clients.
   amule, gftp, d4x

   Network/Mail [new]
   Mail and Usenet readers, mail
   notification applets etc.
   mutt, mozilla-thunderbird, tin

   Network/Monitoring [new]
   Network monitoring software.
   gip, ettercap, iptstate

   Network/News [new]
   Newsfeed and podcast agregators.
   akregator, kitty, liferea

   Network/Web Browsing [new]
   Web browsers, tools for offline browsing.
   elinks, epiphany-browser, webhttrack

 Office [new]
 Office suites, word processors, spreadsheets,
 address books, CRM, ERP, financial sofware.
 openoffice.org, tinyerp-client, rubrica

 IDEs, debuggers, etc.
 anjuta, gdb, eclipse

 Project Management [new]
 Timetable managers, group task trackers,
 bug tracking software, UML tools etc.
 planner, tcm, gnotime

 Scientific [was:Science]
 Programs for science, natural and other.
 ncbi-epcr, earth3d, therion

 Various shells to be used inside a terminal emulator.
 bash, ksh, zsh

 Sound players, editors and rippers/recorders.
 beep-media-player, grip, audacity

 System related software. This is three level
 menu, do not put entries in second (this) level.

   System/Administration [was:Admin]
   Administrative and system configuration utilities,
   also tools for personal user settings.
   gnome-control-center, configure-debian, gksu

   System/Hardware [new]
   Tools for manipulating specific hardware,
   especially non-standard laptop hardware.
   toshutils, nvclock-gtk, nvtv

   System/Language Environment [was:Language-Environment]
   This section is reserved to language-env as a special case.

   System/Monitoring [new]
   System information and monitoring tools, log viewers.
   top, hal-device-manager, gtkdiskfree

   System/Package Management [new]
   Package managers and related tools.
   aptitude, deborphan, smartpm

   System/Security [new]
   Security, cryptography and privacy related software,
   antiviruses, tools to track and report bugs.
   gpgkeys, bastille, avscan

 Engineering related software. This is three level
 menu, do not put entries in second (this) level.

   Technical/Electronics [new]
   Circuit design tools, simulators and
   assemblers for microprocessors etc.
   geda, gnucap, tkgate

   Technical/Engineering [new]
   CAD tools and other technical software
   not directly related to electronics.
   gpsman, qcad, pythoncad

 Terminal Emulators [was:XShells]
 Terminal emulators - graphical terminals.
 xterm, gnome-terminal, rxvt

 Text oriented tools like dictionaries, OCR,
 translation and text analysis software etc.
 kdrill, stardict, turkey

 TV and Radio [new]
 TV-in, TV-out, FM radio, teletext browsers etc.
 gradio, gatos, alevt

 Software for viewing images, documents
 and other (not video) media.
 gqview, evince, gthumb

 Video [new]
 Video players, editors and rippers/recorders.
 istanbul, totem, kino

 Web Development [new]
 Software for web site editing, web
 programming and site administration.
 bluefish, screem, gphpedit

Games and recreations. This is top
level section, do not put entries here.

[subsections excluded]

Programs that provide user documentation. Can (and
should) also contain entries for important documents.
debian-reference, apt-howto, dhelp

Programs that affect the whole screen. This
is top level section, do not put entries here.

 Tools for blanking the screen. Entries of screen hacks and
 configuration GUIs should go to other appropriate sections.
 xscreensaver, xlockmore, [FILLME]

 Security [was:Lock]
 Tools for locking the screen.
 xscreensaver, xlockmore, [FILLME]

Window Managers [was:WindowManagers]
X window managers.
fluxbox, metacity, waimea

Window manager modules. As only modules related to running
WM are showed, do not create subsections for specific WMs.
fvwm, fvwm-gnome, wmaker

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