Re: Menu-2.0, optimized menu tree, hints
On 30-Jun-99, 05:05 (CDT), joost witteveen <joostje@cistron.nl> wrote:
> The real difference is that when a program P happens to be in
> a/b/c/d/P, then with the hints, that location may be relocated
> to a/b/d/c/P (with c and d exchanged). Many probably again really
> dislike that, but think about it. The `TreeCollapsers' already
> don't mind P appearing a/b/d/P (c being collapsed). Now, if
> a user knows "c" should have appeard after a/b/, but sees "d",
> then surely the user also knows s/he should open a/b/d/c, to see
> program P.
I *think* we both understand the differences, but I'm not sure,
so I'm going to see if I can explain my objection more clearly. Not
because I believe that the only reason you don't agree is that you don't
understand, but because the example you give with a/b/c/d/P doesn't (to
me) capture my concern. Maybe because what concerns me wouldn't happen
under the 'hints' system, but I just want to make sure.
Consider the (hypothetical) menu structure:
Apps/Editors
/Graphics
/Viewers
Now, to me (perhaps because I've been brainwashed by the current menu
system) programs like nvi, emacs, and lyx would live under "Editors",
programs like bitmap and the GIMP would live under Graphics, and xdvi
and gqview would live under Viewers.
With my understanding of the "collapsing tree" approach, you might
actually assign a menu entry of 'Apps/Editors/Emacslike" to emacs and
xemacs (and jed?), and 'Apps/Editors/vilike' to nvi, vim, and vile. When
you had only two of the packages installed, each would show up directly
in 'Apps/Editors'; when you installed all 6, you would get the subtrees.
Now consider the GIMP: its menu entry might be
"Apps/Graphics/Editors/bitmaps". But even if the only installed package
with a menu entry beginning 'Apps/Graphics...' is the GIMP, it will
still show up under the 'Graphics' subtree.
OTOH, under the hints system (assume the menu entries I've listed above
become the hint keywords), it's possible for the GIMP to suddenly show
up under the 'Editors' menu. Then when I install xpixmap, there is
suddenly a new 'Graphics' menu, and the GIMP is now moved to a complete
different subtree. That is what I mean by installing a single package
possibly causing packages to an entirely different tree.
The benefit of the "collapsing" subtree is that my path to a package may
get shorter or longer, but it will *never* have a *different* component
at the same level in the tree. Sometimes it's a->b->c->P, sometimes
it's a->b->P, sometimes it's a->b->c->d->P, but it is *never* a->x->P.
My understanding of the hints system is that a->x->P could happen, if
enough packages with hint 'x' get installed.
> Furthermore, I will probably add an option `onlycollaps' to menu,
> that will instruct menu to only collaps the tree, not echange
> menu items. So, people still opposed to the exchanging can also
> get what they want.
Does that mean that the hints keywords would become order dependent?
If so, we need to have a recommended order (i.e. a menu structure
policy...which we have)
One of the problems with our current menu system is that the top level
has functional entries (Editor, Viewer), object type entries (Graphics),
and domain type entries (Net). That may be why we often have trouble
deciding where to put things...
(Sorry this is so long. I'll shutup now...)
Steve
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